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Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 6:01am

So, final boss, huh? (spoilers)

Let's see.
The first phase is ok. Basically, the same difficulty as a fight with the Nameless King.
The second phase always ends with an AoE.
Also, he destroys your cards. Which is utterly irrelevant, compared to the rest of his ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kit. He makes a big deal out of it, pretends like it's his" big" attack, but it isn't. It's genuinely worthless. AoE damage is MUCH scarier, considering it's literally unavoidable.

Oh! And if you get though all that, there's a (final, I presume) phase that deals damage to you EVERY. TIME. You cast a skill.

Kinda like the worst enemy in the game - the flame hedgehog, except it's not just one ally - it's the whole team.
Also, 300 hp instead of 40.
"♥♥♥♥ you" is what's on the menu, I guess.

...
Ok, where's the trick?
Genuinely, where's the trick?
This is not ok. What am I missing?

Please no answers such as "it's supposed to be difficult".
My problem is I see no counterplay.
You play skills - he summons swords. You kill sword - you don't kill him.
You wait for the room to be filled with swords and then press the "special button" (which you can only press thrice) - well, your team is half-dead.
Have fun during third phase - the literal health tax.
You heal - you don't deal damage.
You don't deal damage - the fight never ends, as he endlessly summons sword when YOU play YOUR cards.

... what do I do? At no point during this game did I feel utterly powerless to do anything.

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 17 Aug @ 6:12am

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Originally posted by BlacKnight:

You might be not spending your soul stones in an "optimal" way, If you are not doing it I recommend you trying to get to 7, maybe 8 mana and getting a few more draw cards instead of pushing all your characters to lvl 4-5. If anything you are likely to float mana in the second phase due to not being able to freely use your skills. The snake ring (the one that has 50% change of giving you 1 free mana) is a good item to have on one of your supports.

Having a fixed AoE heal in your healer is usually a good idea. The 8-ish damage that you take shouldn't be much of an issue at that point of the game.

Also, not mandatory but if you can fix some AoE attack that could work as a panic button to deal with multiple swords at the same time it might be a good idea for that fight.

As for the last part, He only does the Blade Starfall two or three times per turn, just try to survive these few actions and then you are free to DPS the swords. Again, the problem here might be that you are not having enough resources (mana/card draw) to sustain this part of the fight.

With that said, it's probably the hardest fight in the game. The most stressful at the very least. It will get easier now that you are familiar with the boss.

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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments

HeraldOfOpera has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 9:09am

On the normal difficulty, third phase only Starfalls you twice per turn. On expert difficulty, you can just fight The Forgotten King for the achievement and don't have to deal with this nonsense unless you actually enjoy getting your teeth kicked in.

Also, if you're getting cards destroyed in the second phase then you didn't read and are being punished for it. End the turn with Deflect on top.

Velorien

17 Aug @ 9:36am

Just to check, you understand the "Deflect" mechanic, right? You talked about the AoE damage being a problem, but if you fully deflect the Illusion Wave, then the damage should be tiny as well, like 5-6.

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 4:58pm

Right. Now that I've gotten some salt out of my system...

Originally posted by Velorien:
Just to check, you understand the "Deflect" mechanic, right? You talked about the AoE damage being a problem, but if you fully deflect the Illusion Wave, then the damage should be tiny as well, like 5-6.

That's still unavoidable damage against every party member.
Everyone's basically at Death's door constantly, because I just don't have the mana to heal.
Every turn the little ♥♥♥♥ creates more illusionary swords. I tried full "safety strats" (the way I usually approach the dommy girl in the White grave), but it's an uphill battle, unfortunately.

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:
Also, if you're getting cards destroyed in the second phase then you didn't read and are being punished for it. End the turn with Deflect on top.

It usually happens naturally due to the nature of me just playing cards to survive and\or destroying illusionary swords.
Doesn't help.

... I'll try one more time.
This time I guess I'll go full AoE. Maybe my problem was that I brought a lot of single-target damage.

After that - ♥♥♥♥ it. I'll switch to "normal", I guess.

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 8:28pm

Update: Alright, FINE.
All I had to do was follow the damn train, CJ! was recruit the edgy boy to clear the swords with his AoE.

I have no clue how to beat the twink without the edgy twink (and the lovely, holy "best passive in the game" woman), but - there we go.

Also, an oddly appropriate Lucy skill (...tantrum) came in handy.
I feel no joy, just grim satisfaction that I didn't have to lower to "normal".

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 17 Aug @ 8:33pm

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BlacKnight has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 8:40pm

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 8:47pm

Originally posted by BlacKnight:
You might be not spending your soul stones in an "optimal" way,

Oh, that - too.
I've realized that I want more mana. Another major change I've made. Besides adding the edgy twink on the team.
Good advice, A bit late, but genuinely good advice

Originally posted by BlacKnight:
having a fixed AoE heal in your healer is usually a good idea

Yup.

Originally posted by BlacKnight:
Also, not mandatory but if you can fix some AoE attack that could work as a panic button to deal with multiple swords at the same time it might be a good idea for that fight.

Absolutely mandatory, as far as I'm concerned.

Again, these are a bit late, but genuinely good advices. Thanks.

P.S.: My problem was, ultimately, that I didn't think it was possible to "go against the flow" in the fight, and that I have to finish it quickly.
I pretty much never viewed AoEs as "something necessary for bosses" until now, so it didn't enter my calculation at all.
One I've realized that "i can just literally kill them as they spawn", I went into "slow and steady" mode. It worked first try.
I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ashamed of myself.

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 17 Aug @ 8:50pm

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 9:34pm

P.S. Master is a scrub.
At some point, I used his own "turbostun" against him with "Loser <3 Loser <3" created by "Reprisal".
That's a rather apt description of how I feel about that particular fight.

Azar was genuinely harder.
Hell, Forgotten King was genuinely harder.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the suggestions.
"Use AoE, stupid" was probably the most impactful one, in the end.
Sorry about the literal meltdown.

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 17 Aug @ 10:14pm

Lysamus

17 Aug @ 9:51pm

There's some flexibility in that boss fight. I've so far cleared it on Expert with a team of Miss Chain, Charon, Ilya and Leryn (Stacking pain debuffs with Leryn buying time) and Silverstein, Ilya, Pressel and Momori (Single target/hand control focus. Discarding cards both to cast them via Sheathe and setup combos to drop Inner Desire damage).

It's a mean fight, but probably ought to be given the game is more or less over once you clear it (beyond the challenge modes of course).

Last edited by Lysamus; 17 Aug @ 9:52pm

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 10:21pm

Originally posted by Lysamus:
It's a mean fight, but probably ought to be given the game is more or less over once you clear it (beyond the challenge modes of course).

I still feel like it was a bit "overtuned".
Again, during my penultimate run, I breezed through the game with zero issues, only to be hard stopped by Azar.

... that made me realize that since he's so much more absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ difficult than the rest of the game, I can (and should) make choices that are "sub-par" in the moment, but help me against Azar, specifically.

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 17 Aug @ 10:22pm

Lysamus

17 Aug @ 10:42pm

I'll definitely concede that he's a step up or two in difficulty compared to the Forgotten King.

Still, I think he allows for more flexibility in buildcraft than you make out. I'm honestly surprised to hear you cleared him with Hein (I'm assuming that's who you're referring to). I can never seem to output enough damage with him myself without him keeling over.

Your run inspires me to try a Hein/Charon run (Focused on keeping Hein in a bad mood with Absorb Yous/Phantasms), and aim for Lian to tank (to keep aggro off Hein) and maybe Leryn for healing (to allow Hein to hopefully stay alive while in a bad mood).

Last edited by Lysamus; 17 Aug @ 10:43pm

#10

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 11:04pm

Originally posted by Lysamus:
Still, I think he allows for more flexibility in buildcraft than you make out.

Probably, but I just don't see it.
Silverstein and Charon were my damage dealers of choice up until that point, and, unfortunately, their high single-target damage output is just no good against Azar. So, I felt like I had no choice but to use Hein.

Then there's Trisha. Same issue. High single-target damage, which simply isn't what I needed.

I haven't tested Ilya. I was gonna, but "plot happened", and trying to defeat Azar with a character I haven't tried once just wasn't gonna happen.

As for Johan - I genuinely don't understand how to use that character.

Anyway, the final team was Hein, Pressel and Lian. There was also Momori, but she died during first phase, because I'm too stupid and impatient to use her properly.
Didn't need her, it turned out. She later helped me to bully the Master, so there's that.

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 17 Aug @ 11:20pm

#11

Samseng Yik has Chrono Ark

17 Aug @ 11:24pm

You probably not well understand the mechanic enough.
Maybe after some fight or lose experience, you will start treasure some skill/card that suddenly become very useful in this fight especially phase 2

#12

Pars'd / 2 has Chrono Ark

18 Aug @ 5:14am

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned that the last phase actually does like barely any damage; it's just an annoying amount of chip that hurts your gauge if you don't have gauge protection.

It's only 3 times a turn (so the first 3 skills) and it's only 50% accurate for 5 dmg per hit. Assuming you have zero armor/damage mitigation on anyone and you don't stop one of them with a skill on top, you take on average 30 damage a turn which is less damage than what some White Grave bosses and TFK do.

Last edited by Pars'd / 2; 18 Aug @ 5:15am

#13

Sailor Paladin has Chrono Ark

18 Aug @ 8:03am

Aaaaaand I just did it again.
On a whim.
During a "free" run.
Without any preparation.
Charon, Lian, Trisha and Sizz, zero AoE. First try.

... I'm not sure why I've had a mental breakdown on this boss. Says more about myself than the game.
♥♥♥♥ me.

*Laugh track.*
*Credits.*

After-credits bonus comment: I think I got spoiled on a Master "special move" that he does the second time you fight him, the absolute ♥♥♥♥ that he is.
Because he didn't do it the first time I fought him.
... I actually went to check if Charon was still there. Got spooked, considering the "lore implications".

Last edited by Sailor Paladin; 18 Aug @ 8:24am

#14

HeraldOfOpera has Chrono Ark

18 Aug @ 9:49am

Originally posted by Sailor Paladin:
Aaaaaand I just did it again.
On a whim.
During a "free" run.
Without any preparation.
Charon, Lian, Trisha and Sizz, zero AoE. First try.

... I'm not sure why I've had a mental breakdown on this boss. Says more about myself than the game.
♥♥♥♥ me.

*Laugh track.*
*Credits.*

After-credits bonus comment: I think I got spoiled on a Master "special move" that he does the second time you fight him, the absolute ♥♥♥♥ that he is.
Because he didn't do it the first time I fought him.
... I actually went to check if Charon was still there. Got spooked, considering the "lore implications".

Yeah, the Free Mode version of the Master borrows a mechanic from the ending version. Lore doesn't apply anymore, as you should have been able to tell from the fact that Azar is once again selectable and can in fact be taken to the Azar fight.