Different classes raise different stats, actual stat manipulation is rather limited and stat currently set to zero cannot be raised at all. The only truly tanky mage is Beatrice who can get skill close to 200 by use of various traits which makes her a dodge tank,

Working on full documentation but stat manipulation is definitely very limited in what its capable of.

Stats if broken all the way down have a number of components - but out of these, the player has direct control over maybe 5 of them arguably.

The components are:
- initial value
- initial bonus (rng, multiplies initial value)
- level growths
- growth bonus (rng, multiplies level growths)
- class bonus
- class multiplier
- affinity
- item growths
- maverick bonus


The player has control over item growths and affinity most directly, you have limited control over class bonus and multiplier as that depends on what the current class is and apply retroactively.

The only part you can technically control, and isn't retroactive is the level growths (and the rng and maverick by extension)

These however, are very limited in being relevant to manipulate - as to manipulate this for any real control, there needs to be a difference in stat growths between 2 classes you can swap between. Which about 95% of the time, is not the case.

A rare example of an exception is rangers and assassins, both t3 classes for the rogue tree. Typically all classes in a tree have the same growths, and its modifiers and multipliers to get a difference. But rangers and assassins actually have distinctly different growths, with assassins have significantly higher weapon growth (mind you, due to how much higher it is - any rogues promoted to assassin will have lower weapon stats than a merc hired as an assassin. Just due to the process used to determine initial stats)


Shy of grinding out the items to buff stats as a result - we're somewhat limited in scope to what we get. Getting a "tanky" mage is as such, fairly limited.

The 50/50 split skill vs strength front line question is a different situation. Since skill's value to your dodge is dependent on your opponents skill and base accuracy (usually 100, but a few mages are 95 base) - with the difference being what then gets tossed into any of the equations that use skill.

Strength is damage reduction, as well as damage dealt in comparison. Pumping it always helps, while pumping skill doesn't mean much if you only combat similar skill levels.

Originally posted by purplecharmanderz:

Working on full documentation but stat manipulation is definitely very limited in what its capable of.

Stats if broken all the way down have a number of components - but out of these, the player has direct control over maybe 5 of them arguably.

The components are:
- initial value
- initial bonus (rng, multiplies initial value)
- level growths
- growth bonus (rng, multiplies level growths)
- class bonus
- class multiplier
- affinity
- item growths
- maverick bonus


The player has control over item growths and affinity most directly, you have limited control over class bonus and multiplier as that depends on what the current class is and apply retroactively.

The only part you can technically control, and isn't retroactive is the level growths (and the rng and maverick by extension)

These however, are very limited in being relevant to manipulate - as to manipulate this for any real control, there needs to be a difference in stat growths between 2 classes you can swap between. Which about 95% of the time, is not the case.

A rare example of an exception is rangers and assassins, both t3 classes for the rogue tree. Typically all classes in a tree have the same growths, and its modifiers and multipliers to get a difference. But rangers and assassins actually have distinctly different growths, with assassins have significantly higher weapon growth (mind you, due to how much higher it is - any rogues promoted to assassin will have lower weapon stats than a merc hired as an assassin. Just due to the process used to determine initial stats)


Shy of grinding out the items to buff stats as a result - we're somewhat limited in scope to what we get. Getting a "tanky" mage is as such, fairly limited.

The 50/50 split skill vs strength front line question is a different situation. Since skill's value to your dodge is dependent on your opponents skill and base accuracy (usually 100, but a few mages are 95 base) - with the difference being what then gets tossed into any of the equations that use skill.

Strength is damage reduction, as well as damage dealt in comparison. Pumping it always helps, while pumping skill doesn't mean much if you only combat similar skill levels.

Incredible information here man, very interesting to learn, thank you for the writeup.

Originally posted by MrPibbs:

Originally posted by purplecharmanderz:

Working on full documentation but stat manipulation is definitely very limited in what its capable of.

Stats if broken all the way down have a number of components - but out of these, the player has direct control over maybe 5 of them arguably.

The components are:
- initial value
- initial bonus (rng, multiplies initial value)
- level growths
- growth bonus (rng, multiplies level growths)
- class bonus
- class multiplier
- affinity
- item growths
- maverick bonus


The player has control over item growths and affinity most directly, you have limited control over class bonus and multiplier as that depends on what the current class is and apply retroactively.

The only part you can technically control, and isn't retroactive is the level growths (and the rng and maverick by extension)

These however, are very limited in being relevant to manipulate - as to manipulate this for any real control, there needs to be a difference in stat growths between 2 classes you can swap between. Which about 95% of the time, is not the case.

A rare example of an exception is rangers and assassins, both t3 classes for the rogue tree. Typically all classes in a tree have the same growths, and its modifiers and multipliers to get a difference. But rangers and assassins actually have distinctly different growths, with assassins have significantly higher weapon growth (mind you, due to how much higher it is - any rogues promoted to assassin will have lower weapon stats than a merc hired as an assassin. Just due to the process used to determine initial stats)


Shy of grinding out the items to buff stats as a result - we're somewhat limited in scope to what we get. Getting a "tanky" mage is as such, fairly limited.

The 50/50 split skill vs strength front line question is a different situation. Since skill's value to your dodge is dependent on your opponents skill and base accuracy (usually 100, but a few mages are 95 base) - with the difference being what then gets tossed into any of the equations that use skill.

Strength is damage reduction, as well as damage dealt in comparison. Pumping it always helps, while pumping skill doesn't mean much if you only combat similar skill levels.

Incredible information here man, very interesting to learn, thank you for the writeup.

Thanks. This honestly is just an attempt for a summary with the necessary context to make sense of it.

Looking to make a proper post detailing how this works in a more dedicated write up - albeit for reasons already mentioned, the actual impact of knowing how this all works is fairly inconsequential.

Man thanks for the seriously helpful reply. My take away is that you CAN manipulate growth by putting units in classes that gain that stat more than others, and these stats aren't just lost when they change class? With affinity being retroactive, it makes one feel like classes are too lol. Do affinities affect any permanent stat growth at all by making affected stats grow more? I wonder what the objectively best class is for overall growths is. Is Assassin/Ranger the only class that has weapon growth? Does this also transfer with class changes? Does any of this even matter at the end of the game, a t3 merc would probably have better allocation ANYWAY if the game generates its stats as if it was only that class for every one of its levels.
God im afraid to even think about new game+, i just wanna grind out a weird niche unit for no reason. : D

Originally posted by A Distraction:

Man thanks for the seriously helpful reply. My take away is that you CAN manipulate growth by putting units in classes that gain that stat more than others, and these stats aren't just lost when they change class?

To just ensure its clear - this only applies to stats gained by level up within that class, not the class specific stat modifiers.

Class specific stat modifiers (static bonuses) are retroactive, similar to affinity.

Affinity will feel like it helps a stats growth, but its a flat addition. The flat addition however is based on the level, which is why it will feel like it aids the growth as the bonus itself also grows.

The only possible exceptions to that are loyalty and leadership, which use a very different growth system which I'm not familiar with the inner workings of (seen bits of the relevant code, some confusion for myself though)

Assassin/ranger isn't the only case of different stat growths between classes - and every class has some degree of weapon growth, but off the top of my head i can't easily name another example for specifics. I know the cavalry tree has 1 class that's also an exception compared to the others.

As for if it matters - normally the possible manipulation beyond the items and affinities don't matter. Between being more the exception on whats possible, being very specific in options when it is - and the hassle to make use of it for relatively small differences.

I will cheerful use S.O,H on cannons and gunners because that is the only way to make less vulnerable to magic attacks

One thing you CAN do is hire a bunch of recruits and check their stats, use the ones with above-average values in a stat you want, and dismiss the rest.

Tricky bit is that the affinities affect this. But you can still have 1 fighter with fire affinity and 28 strength and another with fire affinity and 30 strength or something like that.

Now these differences are pretty small and won't make a huge impact in the long run, but it can mean you can promote a unit a couple of levels earlier as he'll make the stat thresholds earlier.

The other thing to note is that units that gain levels while under your control will have slightly higher stats than ones you hire at a higher level. (I think that is the "growth bonus" purplecharmanderz mentions? Not sure. The game states this "home grown" bonus exists.)

Notably the bonus starting levels you can get from the middle tech tree that start units at a higher level count as "home grown" and so include the bonus, so those techs are great to have.

So technically you could recruit units in the first mission and then level them up manually when you need them (i.e. in an arena) instead of higher higher level units later on, and they'd have higher stats.

I personally do not bother though.

Originally posted by Iguana-on-a-stick:

One thing you CAN do is hire a bunch of recruits and check their stats, use the ones with above-average values in a stat you want, and dismiss the rest.

Tricky bit is that the affinities affect this. But you can still have 1 fighter with fire affinity and 28 strength and another with fire affinity and 30 strength or something like that.

Now these differences are pretty small and won't make a huge impact in the long run, but it can mean you can promote a unit a couple of levels earlier as he'll make the stat thresholds earlier.

The other thing to note is that units that gain levels while under your control will have slightly higher stats than ones you hire at a higher level. (I think that is the "growth bonus" purplecharmanderz mentions? Not sure. The game states this "home grown" bonus exists.)

Would be what I'm referring to with that yeah, though will go ahead to emphasize how slight it is.

Way that part works is heavily weighted rng:
- generate 4 random numbers from 0 to 1, add them together
- divide the result by 80
- multiply the garunteed growths by 1+ the result from the last step
- round the result to the nearest whole number (rounding up on .5)

Amounts to an average increase of 2.5%, and a standard range of deviation within the 1.8% to 3.2% range, capping at 5%. Though if you are somehow *really* unlucky, the unit can potentially get a 0% increase...

This gets a bit more complicated at the purchase step for comparison as there is a system for simulating some of this on new units, but that part i don't have fully documented for myself yet as its got a few additional moving parts to consider, namely a maximum portion. Though the big difference is generated units like that use their current class to determine level 1 stats - and then the growths as well. Not exactly huge in impact since most classes in a tree share growths as already mentioned - but assassin/ranger example for what it makes a difference (with assassin most prominent of the two)