So for scoring with plasma deck what matters is the sum of ships and mult instead of the product. (You'll score the square of half the sum.)

However you need higher scores, which can be dangerous around ante 2-3.

Obviously, chip jokers are way better at boosting that than +mult jokers are, because they add larger amounts. +mult jokers normal value relies on multiplying their small adds by larger chip numbers.

However, chip jokers have at best linear scaling. You can win Ante 8 on them (I recently did that with mostly a Hiker reactivation build) but I don't think they'll take you to 100M.

To blow up the scale, you still need xmult. Maybe with +mult, but ideally you might be able to just use upgraded base hand mult with xmult. If you've pivoted to really big mult, yes, you should aim to replace the chip jokers, because adding 200 chips is nothing compared to multiplying your 1000 mult by 2.

Plasma requires you to make larger scores than typical, but it calculates score in a way that is capable of scoring better than any other deck. Instead of scoring 20 chips and 4 mult as 20 x 4 it will balance the numbers by adding 20 and 4 to make 24 and then it splits it into chips and mult evenly, making it 12 x 12. This is really strong as if you had a hand that was 100 x 1,000 it would score for 100,000 typically but on plasma it would become 550 x 550 and score for 302,500.
Instead of focusing on increasing your chips and mult like you typically would on other decks, plasma wants you to focus solely on making one number as big as possible. Early on, chips are easier to stack up on in higher numbers, but later mult is better as it will always have more potent scoring capabilities with X mult jokers/effects. To win lower stakes you can just brute force chips and win typically but higher stakes will most often require a pivot to mult.

Originally posted by RazzberryMocha:

Plasma requires you to make larger scores than typical, but it calculates score in a way that is capable of scoring better than any other deck. Instead of scoring 20 chips and 4 mult as 20 x 4 it will balance the numbers by adding 20 and 4 to make 24 and then it splits it into chips and mult evenly, making it 12 x 12. This is really strong as if you had a hand that was 100 x 1,000 it would score for 100,000 typically but on plasma it would become 550 x 550 and score for 302,500.
Instead of focusing on increasing your chips and mult like you typically would on other decks, plasma wants you to focus solely on making one number as big as possible. Early on, chips are easier to stack up on in higher numbers, but later mult is better as it will always have more potent scoring capabilities with X mult jokers/effects. To win lower stakes you can just brute force chips and win typically but higher stakes will most often require a pivot to mult.

that's the problem, like i know i can get to ante 8 but i did some runs to try and "transition" to mult, but chips number is always bigger, so i don't know how i'm supposed to do
like in other decks when i have mult xmult, xmult...etc. it's easy to see, but this deck is weird, like i kinda get how it works, but i thought it was easy
in short it's not the chips vs mult that i don't understand, but how and when replace chips with mult, despite 100 hrs in this game i still consider myself a newb so i thought this deck was easier to score high numbers
like i need to start with chips or i can start with mult and xmult? Isn't it easier to start build mult earlier?
thanks for the answer anyway

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

Originally posted by RazzberryMocha:

Plasma requires you to make larger scores than typical, but it calculates score in a way that is capable of scoring better than any other deck. Instead of scoring 20 chips and 4 mult as 20 x 4 it will balance the numbers by adding 20 and 4 to make 24 and then it splits it into chips and mult evenly, making it 12 x 12. This is really strong as if you had a hand that was 100 x 1,000 it would score for 100,000 typically but on plasma it would become 550 x 550 and score for 302,500.
Instead of focusing on increasing your chips and mult like you typically would on other decks, plasma wants you to focus solely on making one number as big as possible. Early on, chips are easier to stack up on in higher numbers, but later mult is better as it will always have more potent scoring capabilities with X mult jokers/effects. To win lower stakes you can just brute force chips and win typically but higher stakes will most often require a pivot to mult.

that's the problem, like i know i can get to ante 8 but i did some runs to try and "transition" to mult, but chips number is always bigger, so i don't know how i'm supposed to do
like in other decks when i have mult xmult, xmult...etc. it's easy to see, but this deck is weird, like i kinda get how it works, but i thought it was easy
in short it's not the chips vs mult that i don't understand, but how and when replace chips with mult, despite 100 hrs in this game i still consider myself a newb so i thought this deck was easier to score high numbers
like i need to start with chips or i can start with mult and xmult? Isn't it easier to start build mult earlier?
thanks for the answer anyway

It helps to work towards the mult pivot even while you're playing towards chips. Doing something like ramping up a ride the bus super early while still playing chips and then committing to a pivot when you find a couple X mults you can slot in along the run. With the power of chips early you can easily afford to slot in a few investment mult jokers or econ jokers to help you find the pieces needed for a pivot.

What you basically want to do is rely on one Bull (like literally the bull joker) who carries your entire run on chips, and transition your deck to use Xmult instead later on

Part of this is trying to get cards that will improve your main poker hand, as all multipliers will affect it.

My personal favorite joker for this is burnt joker, because it absolutely assures you will get roughly 20+ poker hand buffs by ante 8. It'll make even High Card a beast.

Space Joker can be nice for this if you have the dice joker and/or burglar so you can make multiple attempts to upgrade your deck

Once you upgrade your main poker hand enough, you basically chuck all the Multiplier Jokers out the window and replace them all with Xmults like Photograph, Baron, and chad/mime respectively to make them go off multiple times.

Eventually your poker hand should outpace even bull and you can replace it for another xmult.

If you don't have anything in your plan to improve your poker hands,it will make Ante 8+ way more RNG than it already is, because xmult doesn't work without mult, and Joker Mult uses up space compared to hand levels.

This is more or less just the idea to try to add more consistency to a 100m attempt.

An early constellation can also help a lot, because it will just naturally move you towards the direction you should be going to reach higher chip levels.

For plasma deck, I'd say you really should want to never have more than one joker on +mult. Mult is only good for plasma because of xmult stacking multiplicatively. If a mult joker isn't at least doubling your mult (or going to be once you get it set up) it's not getting you where you need to be. And that might be setting the bar too low.

It's not a very big deal for a chip build to get 300, 400 chips. You need to be generating mult that dwarfs that to make the changeover useful.

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

For plasma deck, I'd say you really should want to never have more than one joker on +mult. Mult is only good for plasma because of xmult stacking multiplicatively. If a mult joker isn't at least doubling your mult (or going to be once you get it set up) it's not getting you where you need to be. And that might be setting the bar too low.

It's not a very big deal for a chip build to get 300, 400 chips. You need to be generating mult that dwarfs that to make the changeover useful.

yeah i understand that, basically the mult number must be greater than chips (?)

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

For plasma deck, I'd say you really should want to never have more than one joker on +mult. Mult is only good for plasma because of xmult stacking multiplicatively. If a mult joker isn't at least doubling your mult (or going to be once you get it set up) it's not getting you where you need to be. And that might be setting the bar too low.

It's not a very big deal for a chip build to get 300, 400 chips. You need to be generating mult that dwarfs that to make the changeover useful.

it's the transition that's tricky

i got bull, i could go on with it (and keep buy planet cards) but i wanted to try, i had blueprint, supernova, some joker with hologram (x1.5) and constellation

it worked but not so much

point is (obviously) you can't put jokers in a waiting room and take them when you need them so it's about using both, transitioning...anyway yeah it makes sense that mult stuff should be on cards, also jokers have low +mult compared to chips (blue joker or bull for example)

said that, i think i can win base difficult with only a couple chips jokers but i was interested in do high scores i guess it's upgrades and a bit of luck

of course in white stake

You hardly need any chips to win ante 8 with plasma. Pretty much any heavy duty chip card will take you over the finish line. If you're getting close to 600 chips you probably have enough to beat anything except very large blind.

So pretty much if you see your score getting near 100,000 you're probably ready to start grabbing xMult cards. Just hang onto your big chip card until your mult actually exceeds your chips.

ok so chips until score is big enough? but like the blue joker, things like that?
or scaling jokers?
problem is that good xmult jokers appear earlier LOL i know it's RNG but i feel i don't get this deck, different people have different strategies
i get the theory, but in practice it seems hard to replace chips with xmult
sorry if i keep asking, but maybe i'm not good enough idk LOL

also do i need glass cards, planets upgrades...like are there priorities? Or specific jokers/hands that work well with this deck?
thanks for the advices anyway to all the people here

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

ok so chips until score is big enough? but like the blue joker, things like that?
or scaling jokers?
problem is that good xmult jokers appear earlier LOL i know it's RNG but i feel i don't get this deck, different people have different strategies
i get the theory, but in practice it seems hard to replace chips with xmult
sorry if i keep asking, but maybe i'm not good enough idk LOL

Use chips early to breeze through earlier antes and during that time pick up some econ jokers and do some deckfixing, maybe also picking up a strong X mult like constellation or hologram if you see it for later. Once you get to a point where with multipliers you can get a higher mult than chips you can very safely pivot (ex. if you get a base mult of 20ish and end up with accumulatively X9 with jokers/glass that is pretty good).

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

also do i need glass cards, planets upgrades...like are there priorities? Or specific jokers/hands that work well with this deck?
thanks for the advices anyway to all the people here

For the highest possible scores you'll want to abandon flat mult jokers, as they can be replace by planets. Planets also are very good for a glass card build, as they score before jokers do, combined with retriggers like hack and glass will probably get you 100m. If you're playing on white stake then you'll have time to build into any hand, especially five of a kind/flush five. You can also always play on another deck, as strategies such as the one I'm describing will definitely work on any deck, and if the hardest part isn't the scoring but getting there in the first place then plasma might not be the answer.

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

For plasma deck, I'd say you really should want to never have more than one joker on +mult. Mult is only good for plasma because of xmult stacking multiplicatively. If a mult joker isn't at least doubling your mult (or going to be once you get it set up) it's not getting you where you need to be. And that might be setting the bar too low.

It's not a very big deal for a chip build to get 300, 400 chips. You need to be generating mult that dwarfs that to make the changeover useful.

yeah i understand that, basically the mult number must be greater than chips (?)

Significantly greater.

Like, it might take you three jokers to get your mult slightly greater than your chips. When you could have used just one of those jokers to double your chips, and score more.

But then if you add another xmult to slightly greater and you're at 3x, and now you're talking.

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

For plasma deck, I'd say you really should want to never have more than one joker on +mult. Mult is only good for plasma because of xmult stacking multiplicatively. If a mult joker isn't at least doubling your mult (or going to be once you get it set up) it's not getting you where you need to be. And that might be setting the bar too low.

It's not a very big deal for a chip build to get 300, 400 chips. You need to be generating mult that dwarfs that to make the changeover useful.

it's the transition that's tricky

i got bull, i could go on with it (and keep buy planet cards) but i wanted to try, i had blueprint, supernova, some joker with hologram (x1.5) and constellation

it worked but not so much

point is (obviously) you can't put jokers in a waiting room and take them when you need them so it's about using both, transitioning...anyway yeah it makes sense that mult stuff should be on cards, also jokers have low +mult compared to chips (blue joker or bull for example)

said that, i think i can win base difficult with only a couple chips jokers but i was interested in do high scores i guess it's upgrades and a bit of luck

of course in white stake

The transition is rough because when your chips and mult are near equal, you're getting only penalties for playing plasma deck. This can, if handled badly, make you fail to clear blinds.

I think I've only actually made the pivot well once, and that was an OP face card xmult with hanging chad build.

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

yeah i understand that, basically the mult number must be greater than chips (?)

Significantly greater.

Like, it might take you three jokers to get your mult slightly greater than your chips. When you could have used just one of those jokers to double your chips, and score more.

But then if you add another xmult to slightly greater and you're at 3x, and now you're talking.

Originally posted by Stefandreus:

it's the transition that's tricky

i got bull, i could go on with it (and keep buy planet cards) but i wanted to try, i had blueprint, supernova, some joker with hologram (x1.5) and constellation

it worked but not so much

point is (obviously) you can't put jokers in a waiting room and take them when you need them so it's about using both, transitioning...anyway yeah it makes sense that mult stuff should be on cards, also jokers have low +mult compared to chips (blue joker or bull for example)

said that, i think i can win base difficult with only a couple chips jokers but i was interested in do high scores i guess it's upgrades and a bit of luck

of course in white stake

The transition is rough because when your chips and mult are near equal, you're getting only penalties for playing plasma deck. This can, if handled badly, make you fail to clear blinds.

I think I've only actually made the pivot well once, and that was an OP face card xmult with hanging chad build.

late reply, wanted to thank you for the tips, in the end i unlocked stuntman with checkered deck, ancient joker, flush, some glass card...usual stuff, i got to 2 billion LOL
but this deck is still weird to me, like, if i find a x mult joker at the beginning (ramen for example) should i take it?
or i have to take only chips first and only mult after?
from what i've seen +flat mult aren't useful, scaling stuff is good, but even then this deck requires heavy deck manipulation (at least for my humble understanding of the game) and higher leveling of hands, compared to traditional decks
so that's why i'm so unimpressed, because i can't play it properly...i mean i get until ante 8 in white stake, but nothing extraordinary, you always need retrigger stuff like chad and even more than other decks
at least this is what i noticed
sorry, long reply

So the thing with plasma deck is you're doing better with it than with normal scoring if your chips and mult are strongly imbalanced - you need about a factor of 6 between them (in either direction) to be compensating for the doubled blinds.

(If I did my algebra right, and it looks good, the exact ratio is 3+2*sqrt(2) )

That's a pretty big swing needed if you want to get from chip-high to mult-high - and you start on the chip-high side since base hand plus card face value is way higher than base hand mult. (This is the same reason, from a different angle, that normal decks want mult way more than chips at the start.)