It would be great if we could actually hear from some of the NMRIH1 devs/ex-Lever Games devs opinions about the buyout.

As a former lead of NMRIH on the Character/Zombie art. I've been watching this projects development off and on over the years since Maxx put the initial crew for NMRIH 2 together. All I can speak about is what I went through and my perspective of NMRIH's transition. I will not speak on behalf of anything to what went on in NMRIH 2’s development. I wasn’t directly involved with any of it. I will explain below why.

NMRIH 1
This project holds a very close place to my heart as a passion project I have been highly fond of working on since 2007-2014. NMRIH was a mixed-mashed project that holds a cool name but lacked any kind of direction of “intention”. It was purely driven by “inspiration” of George Romero's films. NMRIH simply didn’t know what it wanted to do. But what we all knew was, we wanted slow walking zombies, and the kind that barricaded the player(s) by the numbers. We wanted there to be some purpose along one's journey through play to have some meaningful progression that aided in the apocalyptic atmosphere. We knew Source Engine was beyond limited despite Unreal Engine 3 having already come out, and we felt compelled to stick with Source because, that’s where the mod was announced, and it was an avenue most PC players would have an easier time accessing. Because anything Unreal at the time, was commercial, and was more of a gamble for accessibility, and promotion via the modding community at large. Plus, Source was an engine we already had a lot of practice learning its language from. Which was a pain in the butt, in comparison to what tech is feasible to build on today. But just enough to do the basic things we wanted a zombie game to be the focus of. Stay alive from point A>B[or]C>D (extraction) without getting infected.

As you might’ve wondered, why is Bateman from “American Psycho” in this game? Why are there original characters Molotov, Butcher, Badass and Hunter in the mix as well? As well as a “Walter” knock off from “The Big Labowski”? Honestly, we had no idea how the game should have been displayed. We just knew the look had to be along the lines of “Resident Evil 2” and the rules of George Romero’s “of the Dead” franchise. Making “Jive” was just a spare of the moment idea that had no real intention, and the face itself was based off President Obama’s, with some bad B movie pimp attire. They all fit, but of course were not really intended to be the serious cast of the game. There were additional player models made that were never released, like Gabe Newell from Valve [lol], and the Polynesian Swat officer from Land of the Dead, a national guard troop survivor.

The Team members on NMRIH 1 came and went over the years. I was a Lead for about 7 ½ years, and while I wasn’t able to be completely active near its release, and sometime after its release due to life priorities with finding financial stability with work to pay my bills. I stepped in one last time just before finding my foundation for stable employment. I made for the game “Badass” the first female, and “Butcher” as the last for the player cast. While optimizing the crap out of the game’s art and updating any materials & textures I could with new knowledge I obtained from Valve while working on the 1st Insurgency game. I had a full gore system intended to be planned, with a roster of zombies to be made over and to replace the ones that are currently in the mod with much better art renditions of what they could’ve been. Maxx had at that time decided to start putting together a “secret” team of “picked” people he felt worthy to be part of NMRIH 2. I wanted in, he knew this, and I felt I was owed a place on that team. Given I was the only dedicated character/zombie guy for NMRIH’s entirety, despite my absences, which I didn’t wish to happen. I had to secretly hear from Riley our community manager that Maxx had privately declared he didn’t want me joining. As far as other members are concerned, who never got a spot on the project. That’s something they’ll have to speak about for themselves. I was disappointed when I found this out not directly from Maxx.

“He doesn’t have the chops”. Having to hear this from another team member that he had no desire to have me on board. Was enough for me to realize, this was Maxx’s clubhouse. No longer a beloved video game project. I knew Maxx spent more time bantering with the community than he did working on the mod. As I would assume would be something that would likely carry forward into NMRIH 2 due to the infamous delays for claimed Early Access releases, year after year. Because if playing the “Carrot at the end of the stick” in communications about what my chances were to truly join the team was his method and was his style of leading. I knew I had to resign from the mod, and I did so the following day. Cancelling the zombie work I had halfway all setup for a future update, alongside a more revised version of “Roje,” and Molotov to be brought in. Along with 2 redneck player characters from SickJoe’s original concepts.

I wrote a goodbye letter to the team in good faith. Because the truth was not out front in center, and its leader was passive and not forthcoming. I didn’t want to leave deep down, but I had to because if I wanted to be employed doing what I do best, Character Art. I had to get away from the Source Engine, and that was the goal of my last work for NMRIH. Because I knew NMRIH2 had ambitions it wanted to pursue, as did I for it. But the feeling, as you now know, wasn’t mutual between teammates.

NMRIH 2
All I can say is that early on, Maxx had given me a rundown of things “He” wanted NMRIH 2 to become. Which yes, you’ve probably heard things like PVPVE, or PVP in some capacity. I told him from the get-go this was a terrible idea and would destroy the game's identity. The game overall is today not NMRIH, and while it imitates the amateur look in style, and set dressing it once had. Which I have to say, you don’t have to make areas “pitch black” to build horror. It just says, “you’re lazy, and don’t know how to light a world.” Plus, the attention to obvious details is as bad as they were in the 1st game. Where the scale of objects and textures don’t match real-world dimensions. Ever notice how odd the doors, and their framed openings are strangely scaled in measurement for the new game? This game could have looked fantastic, but sadly doesn’t meet even the remasters of Resident Evil 2 & 3 in art standards. To be honest, it looks just like the first game in Source with physically based rendering if I’m being 100.

I know, and Maxx knows. If I was on board, I would be quite loud criticizing the look of what the game has progressed to, and that it could have done much better. Even doing what I would do openly, calling people out on where they are slacking. I can tell you Maxx and the team did not enjoy it. But every good game has someone doing that, and I was that guy. I do admit, I was sometimes both brash & assertive, but if you want to see the best. You have got to hold people to a standard. I wasn’t concerned about whether everyone liked me, it was about staying focused and let's push out another major thing that revealed the game as we wanted to see it become. Because the best days/moments in NMRIH 1 were when we could all pull an SVN update build and there would be a massive set of changes that showed the game more of what it was becoming. Just before everyone died off suddenly and nothing changed for weeks.

I can openly say after finding out how this project has been handled from both an Art Directive stance, and a PR one. I’m not surprised, but relieved that I not having been part of it, had anything to do with it. Not that I being part of NMRIH1 did in any way. It's just reflective to show this is the responsibility of its projects management, and not due to its team members. I just know from past experiences, anyone who speaks too much, too often for attention with promises & assurances, never delivers, and often has a roster of excuses to be used in place for its lack of accountability. I think looking lately at all that has happened with NMRIH 2, it's because the game was spoken too early of publicly. But that’s what Maxx likes to do, get the attention as soon as he can.

Personally, I forgive Maxx. He’s doing the best at what he knows to do his best with. Even if I vehemently disagree with him about his communication, art direction, and logic to this project. I wish him well, but I won’t lie here as I openly share my testimony as a developer of the original. That I don’t think this game will succeed in honoring its predecessor. I truly think this game would be better off cancelling before it mocks its base game foundation that remains free for all to play. Even if it has clunky mechanics, animations, and goofy hitbox melee. It did the best it could with the team it had. If I could offer any advice, do not do the open world. Keep to the linear format but expand on the alternative routes approach. Making it seem more open world like, but still, linear. As it said best, “Don’t fix what isn’t broken.” but in this case, build upon it.

Was handing ownership to Torn Banner the right strategy for the long-haul? I honestly don’t know. I won’t hold my breath based on what I’m reading/watching with how they’ve handled their current product and the reputation that’s being spoken out on. I do not recognize anyone beyond Maxx and ssba from the original. So far, it’s a PR nightmare with the delays, and walled communication.

Personally, I would have kept NMRIH 2 as a side commercial project until its release, and if it brought in enough sales that rendered a stable studio of finances, and sustained an income that could make its team full-time employees. I think that would have been better. On a personal note, I would have kept the door open to all NMRIH 1 developers who produced finished work the opportunity to be able to work on Part 2. But this is where Maxx honestly shot himself, and his team in the foot. Even if he disagrees with me, I know it would have been a different set of circumstances.

I’m not going to tell any of you what to do for NMRIH 2, it's your money. Hopefully my testimony gives some inside clarity as to what unfolded from one's side of the original NMRIH team. I do hope this game does well, but we’ll just have to see how Torn Banner as a whole makes decisions. Because it seems clear to me, Maxx surrendered ownership, and leadership of the game at this point. Good Luck to Torn Banner. - CrazyMatt

Well Damn. I still have high hopes that this game will be good, but if your story is to be believed then that does put a sour taste in my mouth. I do sincerely hope this game turns out okay, and I do sincerely hope you found better employment with those who don't take you for granted.

Thank you for the kind words.

Well all the characters I make now are all in the Call of Duty franchise. Definitely not taken for granted. So if you play COD, you can enjoy the fruits of my labor there. Hopefully NMRIH 2 does well, but only time will tell from what they do here on out with the community's response to their new owner.

Originally posted by Doowah:

As a former lead of NMRIH on the Character/Zombie art. I've been watching this projects development off and on over the years since Maxx put the initial crew for NMRIH 2 together. All I can speak about is what I went through and my perspective of NMRIH's transition. I will not speak on behalf of anything to what went on in NMRIH 2’s development. I wasn’t directly involved with any of it. I will explain below why.

NMRIH 1
This project holds a very close place to my heart as a passion project I have been highly fond of working on since 2007-2014. NMRIH was a mixed-mashed project that holds a cool name but lacked any kind of direction of “intention”. It was purely driven by “inspiration” of George Romero's films. NMRIH simply didn’t know what it wanted to do. But what we all knew was, we wanted slow walking zombies, and the kind that barricaded the player(s) by the numbers. We wanted there to be some purpose along one's journey through play to have some meaningful progression that aided in the apocalyptic atmosphere. We knew Source Engine was beyond limited despite Unreal Engine 3 having already come out, and we felt compelled to stick with Source because, that’s where the mod was announced, and it was an avenue most PC players would have an easier time accessing. Because anything Unreal at the time, was commercial, and was more of a gamble for accessibility, and promotion via the modding community at large. Plus, Source was an engine we already had a lot of practice learning its language from. Which was a pain in the butt, in comparison to what tech is feasible to build on today. But just enough to do the basic things we wanted a zombie game to be the focus of. Stay alive from point A>B[or]C>D (extraction) without getting infected.

As you might’ve wondered, why is Bateman from “American Psycho” in this game? Why are there original characters Molotov, Butcher, Badass and Hunter in the mix as well? As well as a “Walter” knock off from “The Big Labowski”? Honestly, we had no idea how the game should have been displayed. We just knew the look had to be along the lines of “Resident Evil 2” and the rules of George Romero’s “of the Dead” franchise. Making “Jive” was just a spare of the moment idea that had no real intention, and the face itself was based off President Obama’s, with some bad B movie pimp attire. They all fit, but of course were not really intended to be the serious cast of the game. There were additional player models made that were never released, like Gabe Newell from Valve [lol], and the Polynesian Swat officer from Land of the Dead, a national guard troop survivor.

The Team members on NMRIH 1 came and went over the years. I was a Lead for about 7 ½ years, and while I wasn’t able to be completely active near its release, and sometime after its release due to life priorities with finding financial stability with work to pay my bills. I stepped in one last time just before finding my foundation for stable employment. I made for the game “Badass” the first female, and “Butcher” as the last for the player cast. While optimizing the crap out of the game’s art and updating any materials & textures I could with new knowledge I obtained from Valve while working on the 1st Insurgency game. I had a full gore system intended to be planned, with a roster of zombies to be made over and to replace the ones that are currently in the mod with much better art renditions of what they could’ve been. Maxx had at that time decided to start putting together a “secret” team of “picked” people he felt worthy to be part of NMRIH 2. I wanted in, he knew this, and I felt I was owed a place on that team. Given I was the only dedicated character/zombie guy for NMRIH’s entirety, despite my absences, which I didn’t wish to happen. I had to secretly hear from Riley our community manager that Maxx had privately declared he didn’t want me joining. As far as other members are concerned, who never got a spot on the project. That’s something they’ll have to speak about for themselves. I was disappointed when I found this out not directly from Maxx.

“He doesn’t have the chops”. Having to hear this from another team member that he had no desire to have me on board. Was enough for me to realize, this was Maxx’s clubhouse. No longer a beloved video game project. I knew Maxx spent more time bantering with the community than he did working on the mod. As I would assume would be something that would likely carry forward into NMRIH 2 due to the infamous delays for claimed Early Access releases, year after year. Because if playing the “Carrot at the end of the stick” in communications about what my chances were to truly join the team was his method and was his style of leading. I knew I had to resign from the mod, and I did so the following day. Cancelling the zombie work I had halfway all setup for a future update, alongside a more revised version of “Roje,” and Molotov to be brought in. Along with 2 redneck player characters from SickJoe’s original concepts.

I wrote a goodbye letter to the team in good faith. Because the truth was not out front in center, and its leader was passive and not forthcoming. I didn’t want to leave deep down, but I had to because if I wanted to be employed doing what I do best, Character Art. I had to get away from the Source Engine, and that was the goal of my last work for NMRIH. Because I knew NMRIH2 had ambitions it wanted to pursue, as did I for it. But the feeling, as you now know, wasn’t mutual between teammates.

NMRIH 2
All I can say is that early on, Maxx had given me a rundown of things “He” wanted NMRIH 2 to become. Which yes, you’ve probably heard things like PVPVE, or PVP in some capacity. I told him from the get-go this was a terrible idea and would destroy the game's identity. The game overall is today not NMRIH, and while it imitates the amateur look in style, and set dressing it once had. Which I have to say, you don’t have to make areas “pitch black” to build horror. It just says, “you’re lazy, and don’t know how to light a world.” Plus, the attention to obvious details is as bad as they were in the 1st game. Where the scale of objects and textures don’t match real-world dimensions. Ever notice how odd the doors, and their framed openings are strangely scaled in measurement for the new game? This game could have looked fantastic, but sadly doesn’t meet even the remasters of Resident Evil 2 & 3 in art standards. To be honest, it looks just like the first game in Source with physically based rendering if I’m being 100.

I know, and Maxx knows. If I was on board, I would be quite loud criticizing the look of what the game has progressed to, and that it could have done much better. Even doing what I would do openly, calling people out on where they are slacking. I can tell you Maxx and the team did not enjoy it. But every good game has someone doing that, and I was that guy. I do admit, I was sometimes both brash & assertive, but if you want to see the best. You have got to hold people to a standard. I wasn’t concerned about whether everyone liked me, it was about staying focused and let's push out another major thing that revealed the game as we wanted to see it become. Because the best days/moments in NMRIH 1 were when we could all pull an SVN update build and there would be a massive set of changes that showed the game more of what it was becoming. Just before everyone died off suddenly and nothing changed for weeks.

I can openly say after finding out how this project has been handled from both an Art Directive stance, and a PR one. I’m not surprised, but relieved that I not having been part of it, had anything to do with it. Not that I being part of NMRIH1 did in any way. It's just reflective to show this is the responsibility of its projects management, and not due to its team members. I just know from past experiences, anyone who speaks too much, too often for attention with promises & assurances, never delivers, and often has a roster of excuses to be used in place for its lack of accountability. I think looking lately at all that has happened with NMRIH 2, it's because the game was spoken too early of publicly. But that’s what Maxx likes to do, get the attention as soon as he can.

Personally, I forgive Maxx. He’s doing the best at what he knows to do his best with. Even if I vehemently disagree with him about his communication, art direction, and logic to this project. I wish him well, but I won’t lie here as I openly share my testimony as a developer of the original. That I don’t think this game will succeed in honoring its predecessor. I truly think this game would be better off cancelling before it mocks its base game foundation that remains free for all to play. Even if it has clunky mechanics, animations, and goofy hitbox melee. It did the best it could with the team it had. If I could offer any advice, do not do the open world. Keep to the linear format but expand on the alternative routes approach. Making it seem more open world like, but still, linear. As it said best, “Don’t fix what isn’t broken.” but in this case, build upon it.

Was handing ownership to Torn Banner the right strategy for the long-haul? I honestly don’t know. I won’t hold my breath based on what I’m reading/watching with how they’ve handled their current product and the reputation that’s being spoken out on. I do not recognize anyone beyond Maxx and ssba from the original. So far, it’s a PR nightmare with the delays, and walled communication.

Personally, I would have kept NMRIH 2 as a side commercial project until its release, and if it brought in enough sales that rendered a stable studio of finances, and sustained an income that could make its team full-time employees. I think that would have been better. On a personal note, I would have kept the door open to all NMRIH 1 developers who produced finished work the opportunity to be able to work on Part 2. But this is where Maxx honestly shot himself, and his team in the foot. Even if he disagrees with me, I know it would have been a different set of circumstances.

I’m not going to tell any of you what to do for NMRIH 2, it's your money. Hopefully my testimony gives some inside clarity as to what unfolded from one's side of the original NMRIH team. I do hope this game does well, but we’ll just have to see how Torn Banner as a whole makes decisions. Because it seems clear to me, Maxx surrendered ownership, and leadership of the game at this point. Good Luck to Torn Banner. - CrazyMatt

Thanks for all the labor of love you brought up to the game, like you said It doesn't give the vibe first game its giving and its only making me sad. I want game to be good and enjoyable but I also want ito be like the first one but everytime I read something about it or any kind of news I read, my hope slowly rots away. Once again, thanks for everything and thanks for keeping it honest to all of us. Hope future will be nicer for you. Wishing you good luck.

You're very welcome, it was my pleasure, and Thank you.

Originally posted by Doowah:

You're very welcome, it was my pleasure, and Thank you.

i'll miss your work, i didn't this about maxx and the team and i feel sad about it

I hope you find a project that suits you again

thank you again for you work!!!

This Maxx guy sounds like a clone of Torn Banner's Steve Piggot if I'm being quite frank. At least CMW turned well, but I somehow don't think NMRIH2 will.

This game is DOA

Will follow suit with all the other early access games trying to push propaganda into their titles.

Originally posted by Doowah:

replying to this cus the og post was too long for mobile

Sad to hear man and yeah I agree almost entirely and also thank you for your work over the years. Both on insurgency and nrmih honestly being two of my old favourite games.
I hope you end up having better luck than having had to be a part of a team kicking eachother out because of sequels at this point

I played the hell out of the first game, it's up there among Killing Floor 1 and Left 4 Dead 2 as the my favorite CO-OP games, even with random strangers. Thanks for working on that game.

I never liked Chivalry. this is very disappointing news about the change in direction and dev team.

Originally posted by unfit:

I never liked Chivalry. this is very disappointing news about the change in direction and dev team.

Chiv 1 and 2 always felt like they started with a lot of gusto but then ended up half-baked. Chiv 1 is so fundamentally broken that only mega-spergs can enjoy the horrid jank-is-the-law combat flow and Chiv 2 course corrected way too far to try to make an already-niche genre normie accessible by making it way too shallow.

I am entirely expecting them to ♥♥♥♥ out something 1/4 complete with Early Access then shifting it maybe to 60% complete by "full" release. It's sad because all they really had to do for a home run is copy most parts about NMR1 minus the jank but the fact they're already ruining the map direction makes me think there's gonna be little redeeming.