Well if you try to load an autosave is there a decent one 4 or 6 minutes ago?

If you want to do it stealthily you go under the structure from the other side of the docks. This part was confusing for me as well but it is possible to do it with stealth. That being said, you won't necessarily lose anything but going loud.

Originally posted by Moschka:

Well if you try to load an autosave is there a decent one 4 or 6 minutes ago?

If you want to do it stealthily you go under the structure from the other side of the docks. This part was confusing for me as well but it is possible to do it with stealth. That being said, you won't necessarily lose anything but going loud.

Nope. My earliest save it didn't overwrite is on the barge after i snuck aboard. There's SO many guys there from so many angles it took like 10 minutes just to get to the little house on it where i could turn out the lights, that seemed to be one of the only places that nobody could spot me and I could get my bearings. I tried to get onto the tugboat for ages but there's literally 3 just standing around at the ramp you have to get to to go overboard, there's another on the roof above me, then two more on the roof to the left of the barge and yet ANOTHER one that can see you all the way across the barge through the door of the little room in it. It's absurd.

As for entering from the right direction I'm pretty sure that's what I did. I saw the mechanic guy or whatever when i was trying to go to his house, and he said "Oh good you're here" and then all the other characters got on the radio and started getting into position and the mechanic guy ran off under the structure and said he's about to distract the guards and i basically had to follow him, or at least it seemed like i did. I was able to get on board and to the other end of the barge via stealth even in the broad daylight but going past it seems impossible there's SO many guys. At night this wouldn't have been too bad i'm sure.

But I was under the impression killing people when they say don't kill people gets you a bad ending. EIther way i just gave up and stopped trying to stealth it and just let my people kill them....then of course got castigated for not using stealth.

If it's possible to do that barge in daylight i'd sure love to see how on earth you do it.

The bridge after that seemed like the first really well designed stealth area of the game so far. I find the stealth to be a mess in this game but that bridge was actually fun so far.

EIther way thanks for letting me know going loud wont' kill my ending. I"m determined to stick this game out and see if it starts to click. Deep Silver clearly worked really hard on it. So far it's made about as bad of an impression as any game has made on me outside the graphics which are gorgeous and run fantastic and are very well optimized.

Originally posted by Thrill Sergeant:

Originally posted by Moschka:

Well if you try to load an autosave is there a decent one 4 or 6 minutes ago?

If you want to do it stealthily you go under the structure from the other side of the docks. This part was confusing for me as well but it is possible to do it with stealth. That being said, you won't necessarily lose anything but going loud.

Nope. My earliest save it didn't overwrite is on the barge after i snuck aboard. There's SO many guys there from so many angles it took like 10 minutes just to get to the little house on it where i could turn out the lights, that seemed to be one of the only places that nobody could spot me and I could get my bearings. I tried to get onto the tugboat for ages but there's literally 3 just standing around at the ramp you have to get to to go overboard, there's another on the roof above me, then two more on the roof to the left of the barge and yet ANOTHER one that can see you all the way across the barge through the door of the little room in it. It's absurd.

As for entering from the right direction I'm pretty sure that's what I did. I saw the mechanic guy or whatever when i was trying to go to his house, and he said "Oh good you're here" and then all the other characters got on the radio and started getting into position and the mechanic guy ran off under the structure and said he's about to distract the guards and i basically had to follow him, or at least it seemed like i did. I was able to get on board and to the other end of the barge via stealth even in the broad daylight but going past it seems impossible there's SO many guys. At night this wouldn't have been too bad i'm sure.

But I was under the impression killing people when they say don't kill people gets you a bad ending. EIther way i just gave up and stopped trying to stealth it and just let my people kill them....then of course got castigated for not using stealth.

If it's possible to do that barge in daylight i'd sure love to see how on earth you do it.

The bridge after that seemed like the first really well designed stealth area of the game so far. I find the stealth to be a mess in this game but that bridge was actually fun so far.

EIther way thanks for letting me know going loud wont' kill my ending. I"m determined to stick this game out and see if it starts to click. Deep Silver clearly worked really hard on it. So far it's made about as bad of an impression as any game has made on me outside the graphics which are gorgeous and run fantastic and are very well optimized.

I'll test it out in daylight in my next play through. Unfortunately the game has areas made for stealth and not made for stealth and doesn't explain which is which. This game emphasizes not killing the wrong people and avoiding killing when possible, but inevitably you will kill but it won't cost you moral points. Honestly 50% of me running this section stealthily is getting Anna's comment at the end about being stealthy and the other 50% is not involving the rest of the team in a firefight.

Originally posted by Moschka:

I'll test it out in daylight in my next play through. Unfortunately the game has areas made for stealth and not made for stealth and doesn't explain which is which. This game emphasizes not killing the wrong people and avoiding killing when possible, but inevitably you will kill but it won't cost you moral points. Honestly 50% of me running this section stealthily is getting Anna's comment at the end about being stealthy and the other 50% is not involving the rest of the team in a firefight.

Yeah. I've found the game obnoxiously obtuse and uneven in ways I did not find the first two.

Generally in a game when the characters say "Go in quiet/don't kill anybody" it's because the game does not want me to kill people and does want me to go in quiet and considering you are penalized with the bad ending for killing....apparently only SOME people (?!) it's all very very unintuitive.

Like a good example. Maybe it was yet ANOTHER bug with the game. I raided a bandit camp for no reason other than it was on my map. A character told me hours earlier...something about the area but since the game doesn't let you check your damn missions I really had no idea why I was there beyond another question mark on my map. It seemed doable via stealth at night but also requiring basically total perfection and a good bit of trial and error. At the area i entered there were two guys in a room, one was sleeping. I stealth knock out the guy in the room which wakes up the sleeping guy. I run off, he investigates then goes back to sleep despite something being clearly wrong with his buddy whols sprawled out in their campfire XD I go to stealth knock out the sleeping guy....and the game just doesn't let you for reasons....even though it HAS let me stealth knock out a sleeping guy earlier in the game.

After that i go to do the guitar side mission. I again did not know why i was there cuz a guy mentioned something about a guitar but other npcs were just drowning him out with overlapping dialogue but there was a guitar icon on the map. I go to the area at night and there's like 4 bandits with 100% line of sight coverage of the ground from multiple different directions and all their lines of sight of each other overlap. After a ton of clunky awkward trial and error where some enemies would spot me from the same place some attempts but not during others i trial and errored my way through it and got the guitar but it did NOT come off as a place where stealth was kept in mind....at the same time to go in hot would have required like 3x the ammo the game was willing to allow me to have or craft at that point.

I dunno, there's just so much wrong with the information they provide the player, the environmental cues. In the bridge afterwards, in the previous games you would get to an area, see the layout, see an enemy with his back to you and it's like "Okay this is the devs informing me this is a good area to stealth.". You didn't even have to think about it.

I PREFER to not kill in games if i can but they make it a total chore in this.

you're just whining right? none of these things are issues, just the way this game is... you don't have to do "missions" until you're past that point of no return, like your boat is eaten and now you're on foot inside, etc. otherwise you can backtrack and go wandering whenever you want, up til those points... there's no real "locked in" behaviour in most cases.

and like the the tugboat, they DO tell you to go quiet and if you're spotted they'll back you up... so if they "went in" that means you popped your head up at the wrong time and were seen, that's on you, not them. you probably walked out of the gantry room, stretched and yawned, and walked upright right into someone's line-of-sight with your flashlight on. whoops. reload and try again.

yeah some bedrolls/beds are positioned in a way you can't, just make noise and wake em up and as their standing-up animation plays, grab em and punch em in the head. that one's kind of annoying but you can adapt. but if they're free kills just knife em

re: only some people, you're always told. you're told not to kill fishworshippers, not to kill the slaves, etc. so if you go psycho on those, you lose a guy at the end of the level. ("bad ending" isn't like the others, it's a constant reduction of force on each map) but you still get a sound and a screen effect to tell you, whoops you shouldn't have done that. if you're worried you've whoops!'d too many times this level, reload.

re: guitar tower and bandits, who cares they're freakin' bandits, silenced headshots do wonders on those scumbags from a distance, watch the other guys not the guy you're gonna kill, if they're back is turned they won't immediately return fire but look for you, might even come down off the tower, so snipe then move to new cover, clean the exterior of the place before even getting close, then switch to a noisy point-blank death dealer like ashot and paint the walls red. it's a standard tactic that works almost everywhere that isn't confined; confined is even easier, pick a choke point, a corner or doorway, drop one and leave him to be found, and set up your kill box. bang bang bang... anyone left? bang. clear!

if "going in hot" requires 3x the ammo, you're playing Metro wrong. aim matters! even with every ammo type fully maxxed, conserve conserve conserve. ammo and crafting resources are limited, I mean it's not that bad really, but if you subscribe to the AAAH!! spray-n-pray technique, you will regret it. or if a guy has bulky armor and you keep shooting him in the chest cause you're worried about getting shot yourself? this is bad. stay calm, race right up behind him and slit his throat or pop him in the back of the head, crouch and quietly scamper into some darkness while his buddies scan for you. just don't stand still in one place!

just because you're goin in loud doesn't mean you can't be stealthy too; getting the train car from the bandits building is a great example in the first level; I slaughter all those bastards, everytime, but I will be very mad at myself if I take even one hit or it takes more than one round/stab to kill someone, on highest difficulty. because it's just a fun building to take em down one at a time while they wander around trying to find you. you can do it so smoothly is looks like an assassin masterclass and it just feels so satisfying that you want to reload and do it again, when you do it well.

but to your original complaint, do you really WANT a hand-holding game that tells you everything, walks you right to the next mcguffin with a quest pointer? that's just boring as hell. figuring it out is the FUN PART! well I mean it is for me...

this is why I ask if it's just whining because it's new to you... like fueling generators; no marker for cans, get out there and find one... empty... empty... aha, fuel! if you put a pointer directly over the correct can like it was a Fallout game, I'd cry. I'm so glad it does not do this.

It's a stealth game, stealth works better in the dark.
You should approach each mission with that in mind.

Originally posted by Death Approaches:

you're just whining right? none of these things are issues, just the way this game is... you don't have to do "missions" until you're past that point of no return, like your boat is eaten and now you're on foot inside, etc. otherwise you can backtrack and go wandering whenever you want, up til those points... there's no real "locked in" behaviour in most cases.

and like the the tugboat, they DO tell you to go quiet and if you're spotted they'll back you up... so if they "went in" that means you popped your head up at the wrong time and were seen, that's on you, not them. you probably walked out of the gantry room, stretched and yawned, and walked upright right into someone's line-of-sight with your flashlight on. whoops. reload and try again.

yeah some bedrolls/beds are positioned in a way you can't, just make noise and wake em up and as their standing-up animation plays, grab em and punch em in the head. that one's kind of annoying but you can adapt. but if they're free kills just knife em

re: only some people, you're always told. you're told not to kill fishworshippers, not to kill the slaves, etc. so if you go psycho on those, you lose a guy at the end of the level. ("bad ending" isn't like the others, it's a constant reduction of force on each map) but you still get a sound and a screen effect to tell you, whoops you shouldn't have done that. if you're worried you've whoops!'d too many times this level, reload.

re: guitar tower and bandits, who cares they're freakin' bandits, silenced headshots do wonders on those scumbags from a distance, watch the other guys not the guy you're gonna kill, if they're back is turned they won't immediately return fire but look for you, might even come down off the tower, so snipe then move to new cover, clean the exterior of the place before even getting close, then switch to a noisy point-blank death dealer like ashot and paint the walls red. it's a standard tactic that works almost everywhere that isn't confined; confined is even easier, pick a choke point, a corner or doorway, drop one and leave him to be found, and set up your kill box. bang bang bang... anyone left? bang. clear!

if "going in hot" requires 3x the ammo, you're playing Metro wrong. aim matters! even with every ammo type fully maxxed, conserve conserve conserve. ammo and crafting resources are limited, I mean it's not that bad really, but if you subscribe to the AAAH!! spray-n-pray technique, you will regret it. or if a guy has bulky armor and you keep shooting him in the chest cause you're worried about getting shot yourself? this is bad. stay calm, race right up behind him and slit his throat or pop him in the back of the head, crouch and quietly scamper into some darkness while his buddies scan for you. just don't stand still in one place!

just because you're goin in loud doesn't mean you can't be stealthy too; getting the train car from the bandits building is a great example in the first level; I slaughter all those bastards, everytime, but I will be very mad at myself if I take even one hit or it takes more than one round/stab to kill someone, on highest difficulty. because it's just a fun building to take em down one at a time while they wander around trying to find you. you can do it so smoothly is looks like an assassin masterclass and it just feels so satisfying that you want to reload and do it again, when you do it well. :possession:

but to your original complaint, do you really WANT a hand-holding game that tells you everything, walks you right to the next mcguffin with a quest pointer? that's just boring as hell. figuring it out is the FUN PART! well I mean it is for me...

this is why I ask if it's just whining because it's new to you... like fueling generators; no marker for cans, get out there and find one... empty... empty... aha, fuel! if you put a pointer directly over the correct can like it was a Fallout game, I'd cry. I'm so glad it does not do this.

Being a fanboy is such a sad existence haha. I'm pretty sure deep silver won't sleep with you for defending their honor on the internet.

This is a game that softlocked me with bugs FIVE TIMES in the first 2 hours that i had no concept of the narrative or instructions because every time a character tried to tell me what to do there was some npc talking over them drowning them out and despite the fact they put in a log system to track bits of information you find...none of these conversations can be accessed in it for some baffling reason. that's just incompetent design. Only a fanboy could call problems this egregious "Just whining"

It is entirely possible all the instructions i need were given to me by npcs but i couldn't hear them because other npcs were talking over them about literally nothing.

Either your reading comprehension is at the level of a 3rd grader or you simply didn't read my post.

The tugboat mission started WITHOUT MY CONSENT lol. I stated that in my post. I had zero intention of starting that mission during the day. I was headed to the safehouse right next to it so i could sleep and go in under cover of darkness, the game didn't let me because it was incompetently designed. I just got in the general area, and then suddenly all the people on my team are rushing into the tugboat lol. This is again, incompetent design.

Here's another perfect example of the incompetence of the design in this game compared to a similar competently designed game from a much smaller developer.

I mentioned earlier i have ZERO clue whether i'm supposed to be exploring the maps in exodus. So far there seems to be no reason to do it. I will go to big designed landmark on the horizon, spend an ungodly amount of resources to get there, the landmark, building or warehouses or whatever are filled with enemies. I get into the place and there's nothing there. A couple tins of a litlte bit of crafting materials, far less than it took to even get into the place.

In the competently designed open world survival horror type game i'm currently playing, into the radius, you see the normal desolate landscape, then you'll see a complex of warehouses or something of interest the devs are drawing your attention to. You think maybe i should explore that. the devs want you to explore it...which is why they draw your attention to it. You go into it, and you find some good loot, some nice guns, valuable stuff to sell. There is actually a reason to explore anything on the map they draw your interest to.

It's also worth noting that NONE of the issues i've brought up in metro exodus were present in the first two metro game. There was never one moment where i was sitting there wondering what the developers intention even was. Whether i was supposed to kill somebody or not kill somebody, where i was supposed to go or whether i was supposed to go in hot or stealth.

Originally posted by cuss:

It's a stealth game, stealth works better in the dark.
You should approach each mission with that in mind.

Yet again...as i stated, i did not intend to do the mission during the day. The game gave me no choice in the matter. This is horrendously poor design.

My intent was to go to sleep at the safe house nearby and the game just started the mission for me.