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Ilmoita käännösongelmasta
Tämän keskusteluaiheen laatija on merkinnyt viestin vastaavan hänen kysymykseensä.
Keskusteluiden säännöt ja ohjeistukset
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You also get a bonus to your hit chance, I just don't know the exact values for this game. May be a little different from general AD&D 2nd edition rules.
Normally, your THAC0 would go down by 4 (which means you hit chance would be 20% higher) as a fighter, by 3 for other classes (hit chance 15% higher) when you have Grandmastery.
I THINK in PS:T other classes get the higher bonus, too.
The following is according to the general ruleset of the time.
+1 means THAC0 goes down by 1 which means your chance to hti is 5% higher.
Basic no bonus no bonus
Skilled +1 no bonus
Expert +2 +1
Master +3 +2
Grand Master +4 +3
Strange that this information is apparently unknown after nearly a quarter of a century.
For my current game I am planning to stay as fighter until level 7, so that I can get the first fighter specialization that allows me to train a weapon up to level 4 (++++). From level 7 I am planning to switch to mage for the remainder of the game.
But, I'm questioning whether there is really any value in increasing a weapon to level 3 and level 4. It occurs to me, I have no idea what benefits, if any, those levels provide. Proficiency level 5 would have the obvious extra 1/2 attack per round, but I do not intend to invest in 12 levels into fighter. So, perhaps I would be better off switching to mage as soon as possible rather than waiting until I achieve fighter level 7.
I truly cannot find anything online that indicates what proficiency 3 and proficiency level 4 in a weapon provides. How is it that no one seems to know this information for such an old game!?
Mind boggled.
It appears that what the Ability Bonuses are adding are not JUST ability bonuses (i.e. the bonus from having high Strength, Dexterity, Charisma), but also bonuses that are coming from your weapon proficiencies and weapon enchantments.
So in theory if you subtract any "To Hit" and "Damage" bonuses that are coming from having high strength for a melee fighter, and the enhancements that come from a weapon being +1, +2, etc, you should be left with the "To Hit" and "Damage" bonuses that are derived your weapon proficiency.
I'm going to do some additional validation using my save files, and I may be able to at least mostly answer my own question. I will post any updates here.
Let me know if you have a different understanding of any of this, or what me to explain my findings further.
Am I the only person who cares? :P
Whether or not these are all applying correctly in combat I cannot be certain, but I think I have created a pretty good detail on what each proficiency level provides.
I came here with a question, and I ended up answering it myself :)
There's a LOT about PS:T that is poorly documented, has multiple conflicting claims on the internet, and possibly some things that are completely undocumented.
The lack of clarity on weapon proficiency is just the tip of the iceberg. Other stuff like the Luck stat, and class specialization bonuses, are just as mysterious.
I think you are pretty close. This game was created by Black Isle decades ago and uses the same engine (Infinity) and general game system (AD&D 2nd edition) as Balder's Gate 1 & 2 and Icewind Dale which they also produced. On the Baldur's Gate 1 page here on Steam, (I am terrible at doing links sorry), there is a manual which explains a lot about the 2nd edition mechanics. You might find that helpful.
EDIT: Okay I just reviewed the manual and copied this from page 39. It covers weapons proficiencies.
"Weapon proficiency represents a character’s level of skill with a specific weapon. When a character is created, they have a number of weapon proficiency slots that must be filled prior to their first adventure. Players can assign slots only to those weapons allowed by their character class. As the character’s level advances, they earn additional weapon proficiency points to be assigned.
The rate at which a character’s proficiencies are gained depends on the character’s class. Warriors, who focus on their martial skills, learn to handle a great number of
weapons and gain proficiencies quickly. Wizards, whose attention is occupied primarily by the study of magic, have little time to practice with weapons and so gain proficiencies very slowly.
Specialization and Mastery A character without proficiency in a weapon suffers a
penalty on any attack rolls made with that weapon. Being proficient removes this penalty, allowing the character to wield the weapon more effectively. Certain classes and kits can train and hone their weapon skills to higher levels. This is accomplished by assigning more proficiencies to a single weapon class. Note that only warrior classes (Rangers, Fighters, and Paladins) earn additional attacks per round based on their level of proficiency.
The table to below shows the benefits of higher proficiency, as well as the specific penalties for non-proficiency based on class type.
0 (Warrior Non-Proficiency) -2 - -
0 (Rogue Non-Proficiency) -3 - -
0 (Priest Non-Proficiency) -3 - -
0 (Wizard Non-Proficiency) -5 - -
Proficiency / To Hit / Damage / Bonus Attacks per Round
1 (Proficiency) / 0 / 0 / 0
2 (Specialization) / +1 / +2 / +1/2
3 (Mastery) / +3 / +3 / +1/2
4 (High Mastery) / +3 / +4 / +1/2
5 (Grand Mastery) / +3 / +5 / +1
Looks like you were got most of it figured out. Only thing I see is the penalty for non-proficiency if you are not a warrior (fighter).
Thanks philos3! This is an awesome find.
Yeah, I only tested the untrained penalty on TNO, when he was a fighter at the beginning of the game. Good to know that other classes get higher penalties, though I guess this would only ever apply to TNO, since all other companions have their proficiencies and weapons types set by the game. And I guess the priest penalty would never come into play, since TNO cannot become a priest.
I did notice that high mastery appears to give a +5 damage bonus in game rather than the +4 indicated above. So maybe that got changed at some point after the manual was printed.
This is incorrect. PS: Torment uses the original (not EE) Baldur's Gate 1 progression. It goes like this:
2 (Specialization) +1 ThAC0 +2 dmg +1/2 apr (attacks per round)
3 (Mastery) +3 ThAC0 +3 dmg +1/2 apr
4 (High Mastery) +3 ThAC0 +5 dmg +1/2 apr +1 speed factor
5 (Grand Mastery) / +3 ThAC0 +5 dmg +3/2 apr +3 speed factor.
Note that 5th prof. point grants you an ADDITIONAL attack on top!
Speed factor is is a delay before the attack comes out after you've issued an order to hit something. Somewhat useful if you want to do some hit'n'run with a slow weapon like a hammer or an axe but nothing to write home about.