Gensokyo Defenders

Gensokyo Defenders

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Arbiter's guide to everything Gensokyo Defenders!
By Arbiter
In this guide i will be going over each Character, Trap and Enemy in Gensokyo Defenders! Feel free to Control + F to find what Character, Trap or Enemy you're looking for in particular! The rankings in this guide are mostly my opinion after playing through the game on the Normal Difficulty.

THIS GUIDE IS CURRENTLY WIP! If you find any mistakes or want to make any reccomendations please let me know in the comments below!

Last Edit: 4/13/23 @6:32am
   
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What IS Gensokyo Defenders?

Gensokyo Defenders is a 'top-down' Tower Defense [en.wikipedia.org] game where you play as one of the many cast of characters from the Touhou [en.wikipedia.org] universe. Tower Defense games involve placing towers or traps alongside a path of a stage to stop, slow or block the path of enemies coming to attack your base. This guide assumes that you already are familiar with Touhou at least slightly, but even so if you're not, this game is perfectly fine to play and enjoy even without previous knowledge of the Touhou series of media. This game is very simple in terms of tower defense mechanics and is very akin to games like Dungeon Defenders and Orcs Must Die!. You play as a myriad of characters from a Proud Ice Fairy who is on a quest to prove she's the strongest and most amazing, to an extremely quick news reporter Tengu who was promised a good story as a result of the new games for the denizens to partake in.
Controls
WASD = Basic Movement

Spacebar = Can be held down while moving to sprint. Cannot be used while attacking. Can be used while previewing a spell before casting.

Left Mouse Button = Auto-Attack with your character. Some characters use Ranged Attacks and others utilize Melee. Upgraded with Blue UFOs. (UFOs are items that enemies can drop to upgrade your character. The upgrades do not carry over between maps.)

Right Mouse Button = Used for aiming your Auto-Attacks. Can be held down alongside Left Mouse Button to do both at the same time.

Esc = Pause the game.

Q = 1st spell. Upgraded with Red UFOs. Usually costs Mana. First press shows the AOE of the spell and what it does. Second press with the preview still up uses the spell. Can be cancelled by using left click.

E = 2nd spell. Upgraded with Green UFOs. Usually costs Mana. First press shows the AOE of the spell and what it does. Second press with the preview still up uses the spell. Can be cancelled by using left click.

Shift = Master Spark/Super Ability. Usually needs to be charged by defeating enemies with Auto-Attacks and spells. Does not usually use mana. Upgraded with Gray UFOs. First press shows the AOE of the spell and what it does. Second press with the preview still up uses the spell. Can be cancelled by using left click.

G = Start the next round. Cannot be used until the previous round is finished.

The Following Numbers are indicative of the numbers above the alphabetical keys:

1 = Used to switch back to your Auto-Attacks and spells from the trap building menu.

2, 3, 4, 5 = Used to select one of the 4 traps you can take into each map.

6 = Used to select and sell traps that you don't want. YOU CANNOT SELL ONE-TIME-USE TRAPS AFTER PLACING THEM DOWN.
Gameplay Information
Game Difficulty Settings: Gensokyo Defenders allows you to play the game in three different difficulty modes. It's important to know that you should play on whatever difficulty feels most comfortable for you and not worry about playing on an easier difficulty to enjoy the game! However, it should be noted that you are forced to play on Normal Mode for the first few missions of the game. Afterwards you will be given Easy Mode to begin playing. Previous maps that forced you to play as a specific character can be gone back to and completed again on different characters as well on every difficulty after the first time of completion. Each difficulty allows you to earn 3 stars per level on each character. As far as I know, to receive three stars on a level, you must:

  • Complete the mission.
  • Not have a single death the entire mission.
  • Have your base be at full health at the end of the mission. I am unsure if the barrier from one of the upgrades to your base accounts for this, or if any damage at all ruins the star.

Some missions may have different star requirements that i am unaware of. Please let me know if this is the case for any mission and i will investigate and post updates here.

If you manage to complete every level with at least 1 star on normal mode, you will unlock Hard Mode. Normal mode is above average in challenge for the average top downish tower defense game difficulty. However hard mode does not pull any punches. Enemies hit harder, have more health, move faster and generally spawn in more numbers. I recommend focusing on getting ample 3 stars on normal mode, and developing a few strategies for specific maps before tackling Hard Mode at all. Easy Mode is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Enemies have less health and hit less hard. Also some maps have defenses placed for you at the start of the mission, which can either be kept, or sold for some extra gold to spend on your own defenses. These easy mode pre-given defenses are also a nice way to learn of some synergies or practice on where to put specific towers for maximum effectiveness.

Story Mode

Story Mode consists of 2 (3 if you have the DLC) separate stories to complete as you play. You unlock the Second Story as you progress through the primary one. The Third Story is unlocked after beating the primary story on any difficulty if you have the DLC. I believe there are 29 missions/maps across all 3 stories each being able to be 3 starred on each of the 3 difficulties with each of the 20 characters (3 of which are also in the DLC).

Character Selection
Now that we've covered the basics of what the game has to offer, let's discuss the cast of characters you'll be choosing from as you play through the game. You only Start with Cirno (The tutorial mission has you play Reimu but you don't unlock her until much later.) so we'll cover her first. I'll be discussing each character's individual power, survivability, utility, and trap reliability/combo potential (referred to as just 'trapping') with ☆★✬. Note that as of writing this guide i have NOT done anything with the online play. I would compare the trap comparisons to actual character combos for strengths and weaknesses.

Quick explanation of ranking categories:
Difficulty: A measurement of how hard a character is to pickup and play effectively. The higher the number the harder the character is. This category is determined by Normal difficulty.
Power: A measurement of how much damage a character can put out.
Survivability: A measurement of how well a character can stay alive and deal with enemies that are designed to kill your character.
Utility: A measurement of how useful a character is with their abilities or auto-attacks. Usually defined by what they bring to the table besides just damage like crowd control.
Trapping: A measurement of how well the character synergizes with traps. Usually these characters have a higher reliability on them for their damage.

Cirno
Difficulty: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Power: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)


Aya
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Survivability: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Utility: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Trapping: ★★★★☆ (4/5)


Utsuho
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5) OR ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Power: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Survivability: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Utility: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Trapping: ☆☆☆☆☆ (0/5)


Rin
Difficulty: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Power: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Survivability: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)


Shinmyoumaru
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Survivability: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Trapping: ★★★★☆ (4/5)


Marisa
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Survivability: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Utility: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Trapping: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)


Alice
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)


Mokou
Difficulty: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Power: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Survivability: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Utility: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Trapping: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)


Kaguya
Difficulty: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Power: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Trapping: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)


Sakuya
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Trapping: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)


Remilia
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Survivability: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Utility: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Trapping: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)


Sanae
Difficulty: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Power: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Survivability: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★★★☆ (4/5)


Youmu
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Survivability: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Utility: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Trapping: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)


Yuyuko
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Trapping: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)


Reimu
Difficulty: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Power: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★★★★ (5/5)


Fairies of Light
Difficulty: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Survivability: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)


Seija
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Trapping: ★★★★☆ (4/5)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next 3 characters are part of the DLC, Gensokyo Defenders Plus.

Yukari
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Survivability: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Utility: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Trapping: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)


Miko
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Survivability: ★★✬☆☆ (3/5)
Utility: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Trapping: ★★★★☆ (4/5)


Byakuren
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Survivability: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Trapping: ★☆☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Character Details, Upgrades and Abilities
I won't go into too much detail about Character Upgrades as most of them are very self explanatory. They give slight boosts to your characters, traps or even your base. I will cover a few of the more complicated or just plain bad ones.


Refined Magic Circle
This upgrade is a bit simple whereas it increases the amount of enemies you can let reach your base. I'm including this one because after some minor testing, it seems that this works in a similar vein to the next upgrade, where you don't lose out on 3 stars even when losing lives if the lives lost is above the threshold of the original amount before the upgrade applies. (requires further testing)


Disposable Magic Wall
This upgrade provides a shield onto your base's health that soaks up an enemy going into it, damaging the shield's health instead of the base. Each subsequent upgrade makes the shield stronger, allowing more slip-ups. The shield is refreshed at the beginning of each wave. That last part is the selling point over the first upgrade. It would be if the explained methodology wasn't in affect. (as stated the first upgrade needs further testing)


Self-Defense Circle
This upgrade allows the base to attack enemies that get close. This upgrade is absolutely horrible. At max level it fires an attack off once every 5-7 or so seconds for 10 damage in a very small radius around it, only being single target. That's pretty pathetic in comparison to some of the other upgrades you can get. Pass on this one.


Reimu's Amulet
This upgrade increases your character's HP by 10%. Normally fine, but there's another upgrade to the right of this one named Suika's Sake. The Sake increases your health by 10% but also applies to your traps as well. Not necessarily useful for a lot of traps, but is just a straight upgrade compared to this. Ignore this one as well unless you're looking for even more HP.


Phoenix Feather
This upgrade shortens your respawn time by 1 second and a further second for each upgrade. On paper this seems useful as in the average tower defense game, death's respawn time can be crucial for saving your base or towers from certain death. However in this game most traps don't have health, and if they do they're usually expendable. There's a few niche characters that could utilize this upgrade, but even then if dying removes a star, the whole concept of dying shouldn't be something to mitigate other than not dying in the first place. I would pass on this one unless you're really needing it as a specific character who needs to do upkeep on familiar summoning spells, or you're struggling with fast enemies slipping by your defenses whilst you're dead.


Aya's Feather
This upgrade increases the speed of your character by 3%. This one isn't necessarily 'bad' as the speed increase, albeit negligible, isn't pointless. It's fine on bigger maps that require the travel time. The issue comes from that most big maps have teleporters that allow you to move around quickly enough, that a measly small speedboost isn't going to make a difference. Don't waste a lot of points on this unless you're struggling to keep up with fast enemies, or aren't able to utilize teleporters to the fullest potential. Melee characers could also use this, but would be better off with a myriad of other upgrades instead. Don't prioritize this upgrade.

Character Abilities


WIP

This section will include details on specifics of each character, their abilities and the basic upgrade system that applies to all characters.
Character Details and Abilities (cont.)
WIP

This section will include details on specifics of each character, their abilities and the basic upgrade system that applies to all characters continued.
Trap Selection
Next up we have the large selection of traps at your disposal. The ability to respec your upgrades at any time means you often can experiment with any amount of combos you'd like at any time, useful for when a level doesn't accommodate your current trap loadout very well. Ratings will be similar here with a few changes to account for these being traps of varying degrees.

Quick explanation of ranking categories (NONE of the rankings, besides Synergy, accommodate for synergies of other traps with the trap in question. If any upgrades would affect rankings I will be make sure to specify.):
Difficulty: A measurement of how hard a trap is to use effectively. The higher the number the harder the trap is to use. This category is determined by Normal difficulty accounting for most average maps.
Power: A measurement of how much damage a trap can put out.
Utility: A measurement of how useful a trap is with what it provides. Usually defined by what it does comparitively to things other than just doing damage, like crowd control or debuffs.
Synergy: A measurement of how well and/or dependent a trap is/or can be with other traps.
Range: A measurement of how much area a trap covers with its effects after being placed down. Will sometimes not use the star ranking system. (☆★✬)
Wall or Ground?: Specifies whether or not the trap in question is placed onto the pathway of the enemies or the 'walls' next to said pathways. Not all 'walls' can have traps placed upon them. Will not use a star ranking system.
One Time Use?: Specifies whether or not the trap in question disappears after being utilized for its effect. Will not use a star ranking system.

Flower Bed
Price: 250 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 187 Gold
Difficulty: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Power: N/A
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Synergy: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Range: 1x1 Tile
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.


Bamboo Spear Floor
Price: 300 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 225 Gold
Difficulty: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Power: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5); with Upgrades -> ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Synergy: ★✬☆☆☆(1.5/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Range: 1x1 Tile
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.


Watchtower
Price: 500 Gold
Difficulty: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Power: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5);
with Upgrades vs FLYING ENEMIES ONLY -> ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5); with Upgrades -> ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Synergy: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Range: 3x1 Tiles; with Upgrades -> up to 5.5x1 Tiles
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.


Flame Carpet
Price: 600 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 450 Gold
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★★✬☆(3.5/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★✬(4.5/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Synergy: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Range: 1x1 Tile
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.


Barricade
Price: 500 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 375 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Power: N/A
Utility: See details for more information.
Synergy: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Range: 1x1 Tile
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.


Spring Floor
Price: 300 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 225 Gold
Difficulty: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Power: N/A but also ★★★★★ (5/5)
Utility: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Synergy: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Range: Varies greatly. See details for more information.
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.


Sake Jar
Price: 400 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: N/A; with Upgrades -> ★★★☆☆(3/5)
Utility: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Synergy: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Range: 1x1 Tile but can lure enemies from some distance away. Can be upgraded with an explosion similar to the Bomb trap.
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: YES.


Bomb
Price: 150 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 75 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★★(5/5)
Utility: ★★★★★ (1/5)
Synergy: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Range: Large multi-tile explosion. 3x3 without upgrades.
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: YES.


Spider Web
Price: 150 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 75 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: N/A
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Synergy: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Range: Large multi-tile splatter 4x4(needs testing) without upgrades.
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: YES.


Mini-Hakkero
Price: 200 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 100 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: ★★★☆☆ (3/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★☆(4/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Synergy: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Range: Large multi-tile explosion. 3x3 without upgrades.
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: YES.


Keystone
Price: 700 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★★(5/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆(1/5); with Upgrades -> ★★☆☆☆(2/5)
Synergy: ★✬☆☆☆ (1.5/5)
Range: Circular 3.5x3.5 Tile radius from WALL.
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.


Mini-Saigyo Ayakashi
Price: 600 Gold
Difficulty: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Power: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★✬(4.5/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★☆☆(3/5)
Synergy: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★☆(4/5)
Range: Circular 4x4ish Tile radius from WALL.
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.


Gap
Price: 600 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: N/A; with Upgrades -> ★★★✬☆(3.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★★ (5/5) with and without Upgrades
Synergy: See details for more information.
Range: 1x1 Tile
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.


Yin-Yang Mark
Price: 400 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 300 Gold
Difficulty: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Power: N/A; with Upgrades -> ★☆☆☆☆(1/5)
Utility: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Synergy: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Range: Stunning can affect multiple enemies that step over the 1x1 tile.
Wall or Ground?: GROUND; One Time Use?: NO.
Trap Selection (cont.)
Funky Fungi
Price: 800 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★★ (5/5)
Power: N/A; with Upgrades -> Varies. See details for more information.
Utility: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5); with Upgrades -> Varies. See details for more information.
Synergy: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5); with Upgrades -> Varies. See details for more information.
Range: 1x1 Tile
Wall or Ground?: GROUND[/b]; One Time Use?: NO.


Grimoire
Price: 1,200 Gold
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★★★★ (5/5); With Upgrades -> ★★★★★★(6/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆(1/5)
Synergy: ★☆☆☆☆(1/5)
Range: 3x1 Tiles
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The next 4 traps are part of the DLC, Gensokyo Defenders Plus.

Flowery Tank
Price: 1,200 Gold
Difficulty: ★★☆☆☆ (2/5)
Power: ★★★★☆ (4/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★★ (5/5)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Synergy: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Range: Circular 4x4ish Tile radius from WALL; with Upgrades -> Circular 8x8ish Tile radius from WALL.
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.


Snow Sculpture
Price: 600 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 450 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Power: N/A; with Upgrades -> ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Utility: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Synergy: ★★★☆☆ (3/5)
Range: Lingering 1x1 tile in front.
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.


Back Door
Price: 500 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 375 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★☆ (4/5)
Power: ∞ (Instant Kill on all non big enemies or bosses)
Utility: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5); with Upgrades -> ★★★★✬ (4.5/5)
Synergy: ★☆☆☆☆ (1/5)
Range: 0x0. Requires other means to active its effect.
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.


Flower Bed
Price: 1,500 Gold; with Upgrades -> as cheap as 1125 Gold
Difficulty: ★★★★★(5/5)
Power: N/A
Utility: ★★✬☆☆ (2.5/5)
Synergy: ★★★✬☆ (3.5/5)
Range: An enormous AOE pull. Maybe 12x12 range from the WALL? Unsure. It's huge.
Wall or Ground?: WALL; One Time Use?: NO.
Trap Details
WIP

This section will contain details of each trap and information involving them and their usage.
Enemy Database
3 Comments
Arbiter  [author] 18 Sep, 2024 @ 7:18pm 
Probably not. I lost my Save Data awhile back and lost most of my interest in making the rest of this. The information for the stuff there is still accurate for what i've put but i probably won't be able to ever finish it unless i come back to the game after a long while.
Xenomune 18 Sep, 2024 @ 6:13pm 
Do you plan on finishing this guide?
❀ Maerith and her Bread ❀ 10 Oct, 2023 @ 12:13pm 
Big love