RimWorld

RimWorld

RT Fuse
belzebot 29 Dec, 2016 @ 4:07am
game balance
@Ratysz Hi, I'm opening a discussion for this because my reply is way too long for the comment section. First of all don't take this as an attempt to tell you what to do with your mod, I just want to give you my point of view about the two changes I mentioned in the comments and your reply to them.

I'm a physicist, so I happen to know a bit about electric circuitry as well. Fuses are as old as electricity itself, they exist to prevent electrical cables starting fires in your house (not explosions!) due to the cable itself being faulty or you running more power through them than they can handle. They have actually nothing to do with batteries per se, a circuit could cause a fire (again, not an explosion) just as well without them if they are faulty or the load is too high.

Today's cable quality and circuit design are much better than in the early days of electricity and the actual need for a fuse to trip is quite rare, unlike in Rimworld where this happens all the time. You probably only remember your fuses blowing for a valid reason a few times in your life, if at all. It's rare, and when it does happen it's usually due to human error. Of course when you do need them, they are a lifesaver. The Rimworld short circuit event is WAY too frequent in vanilla and such a thing in reality can be completely avoided using fuses. There's nothing "magical" about fuses, they use simple electrical principle to prevent short circuits and overloads.

So why does this event exist in the game, and why is it tied to batteries? Personally I can't fathom any reason. As I described, it has very little to do with reality so is there a game balance reason it is needed? I don't think so. What would make the game imbalanced if this event were not to exist? Why do you as a player need to be discouraged from using batteries at all? Why, if you do use them, do you need to be encouraged to separate them with a switch that you have to flick on and off all the time to minimize short circuit risk, and make sure you don't fully charge them? Does this add anything to the game? No, it's nothing but a chore. I don't think there's a single Rimworld player out there who receives any sort of fun factor from this. Nothing is being balanced by this event it's just a pain in the ♥♥♥, plain and simple.

Also to make the comparison to reality once again, whenever you are relying on a power source whose output is fluctuating, like wind or solar, you NEED batteries. It's that simple. Every time scientists theorize about bases on other planets in the future, or even just renewable energy here on earth, batteries are always part of it, for obvious reasons. Why on earth would you discourage their use in a game that has you run a colony on another planet?

So long story short, I believe the Rimworld short circuit event is complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t and has no business existing in the first place because a) it has no foundation in reality and b) it is not even needed to balance anything in the game mechanics. It is bad game design on part of Tynan that this is in the game at all and in his place I'd remove it asap. I was actually looking for a mod that does just that when I found yours and thought this would be a cooler way to go about it. I still do, mind you, I can handle my batteries depleting for no good reason better than nonsensical explosions all over my base. It's still a minor annoyance and unnecessary in my opinion ;)

Keep up the good work, you had a great idea about how to go about this.
Last edited by belzebot; 29 Dec, 2016 @ 4:20am
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Ratysz  [developer] 29 Dec, 2016 @ 11:48pm 
Well, not much to add here, you've said everything yourself.

I don't remember if there's a place to go to with suggestions for the core game, but if there is you should probably post some of these thoughts to it.
atnoslen 6 Jan, 2017 @ 8:49am 
FYI, you can disable the event in the scenario editor when you first start a colony. There is an option to disable an event. I disable "Short Circuit", which is the Zzzt in game event. No more exploding batteries.

I can understand the desire for the event. Electricity having a downfall on a remote planet. But it does occur way too often.
belzebot 6 Jan, 2017 @ 9:25am 
Electricity doesn't behave any different on another planet than it does here. The laws of nature are the same everywhere. Why would there be a downfall just because of that?
Ghostwish 17 Jan, 2017 @ 1:18pm 
Wow, I was looking for a mod to fix this, and.. damn, you're right. I could not figure out why the hell the even it tied to having BATTERIES?
Ratysz  [developer] 4 Feb, 2017 @ 11:54pm 
Please don't forget that it's a game: the reasons for this event's existence and implementation are purely game design rooted - it's "gamey". It's not the choices I would've made when designing an event like this, or the entireity of power networks for that matter, but it's something that's in the game, so the best I can do without overhauling much of the system is what I did with this mod (which is gamey too, in it's own way).
Vermillion 14 Mar, 2017 @ 4:29pm 
@Ratyxz you're right. when i first saw this system i thought there was going to be some sort of logic system in place that you can use to fix the issue.

could you add an option so that the fuses only disipate the power if they are between the fuse and the short?
Ghostwish 14 Mar, 2017 @ 6:25pm 
Month old post, dude.
Ghostwish 26 Apr, 2018 @ 10:39am 
YEAR old post. >:|
Ratysz  [developer] 27 Apr, 2018 @ 3:41am 
@Ghostwish: Why does that matter, honestly? It's not a topic that's chronologically anchored: game balance is relevant for the entire existance of the game (mod, in this case), doubly so for games that aren't truly released yet (or, mods that will still need to be updated before sort-of-final version).

Although, the relevance of the new post to this specific discussion is up to debate.
crow™ 29 Apr, 2018 @ 7:16am 
Allow me to point out that short circuits are not tied to batteries, the stored energy in the batteries simply amplifies the effect of the short circuit. Short circuits occur with or without batteries connected to the network.

"Zzztt...
This event can occur anytime a power conduit has energy flowing through it. The conduit may suffer a fault, causing it to short circuit and start a fire.

If any batteries are connected, the fault will also discharge all stored power in the process, increasing the size of the explosion. Unconnected batteries (through a switch or separate power network) will not be affected."

From the wiki.

EDIT: Also, I don't use batteries in game, and still experience short circuits. This is on both my vanilla and modded playthroughs.
Last edited by crow™; 29 Apr, 2018 @ 7:17am
Ratysz  [developer] 30 Apr, 2018 @ 1:25am 
@Xig: That's only been the case since B18; prior to that no-battery shorts weren't a thing. I keep meaning to do something[github.com] about them, but right now my modding efforts are, as per usual, on hiatus until next RimWorld update.
Bullwinkle 21 May, 2018 @ 3:38am 
It totally makes sense that batteries should explode on RW. Perhaps the laws of physics are the same everywhere, but local conditions are not. Clearly the soil or dust on RW is attracted to batteries and occasionally reacts explosively. That plus this is a game about coping with bad events.
Lord Asriel 11 May, 2019 @ 10:22am 
When I saw the title "game balance", I thought: "Gee, someone who will defend the game's mechanics and claim this mod disrupts balance". To my utmost surprise, and happiness, I could not agree more with OP's point. I am a physicist too. I can understand the game needs to have a challenge factor, but inventing weird science ideas like a short circuit causing explosion as well as instantaneously spending humongous amounts of energy even on terminal points or inside walls is stupidly unrealistic.
Last edited by Lord Asriel; 5 Mar, 2021 @ 12:58pm
As someone who's worked as an electrician on high-speed trains that draw power from electrified catenary wires, I can say yeah, this is right on. Fuses are fail-safes for when there is a surge that will cause more current to go through a system than it can handle (which creates excessive heat as a byproduct of resistance) and that the voltage regulators aren't meant to deal with. Electrical surges are not magical things that happen just be-♥♥♥'ing-cause.

This mod is great, and I appreciate it
Nesano 4 Mar, 2021 @ 12:49am 
You've convinced me to disable Zzzt entirely.
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