Look who’s audio describing you

NIKKI- I’ve got a pain aux raisins and I’ve just got to eat it Ems, after last night’s shenanigans.

EMMA- Yeah, Christmas night out.

NIKKI- We know how to party.

EMMA- Yeah, we did. We do know how to party.

NIKKI- We do know how to party. It was our Christmas do, wasn’t it?

EMMA- How was that second party you left us for, Nikki?

NIKKI- Yeah, I didn’t mean to, you know. I wanted to go but I had to go. But it was great, but I did miss you all. But then you went home anyway. 

EMMA- Well, I had to be ready for today. I had to get my beauty sleep.

NIKKI- She left at ten. Very professional. But I went on somewhere else, didn’t I, Ems. And yeah, it was a bit of a showbizzy party; the minute we got out of the cab – which you kind of gave us, thank you Emma – Libby and I got out and I was like there was going to be Davina McCall there, there could potentially have been Ant and Dec, I know Rylan, he could’ve been there, so really, really showbizzy. I know a few people but not that many. I get out the cab and I see the train guy, Francis, on…

EMMA- I’ve never heard of him. 

NIKKI- Okay, well you should know. He’s literally got a gazillion followers. He’s like this unbelievable train enthusiast, and he’s a young guy and everyone loves him. Anyway, I only got introduced to him by Libby, my young PA. And I turned around and I went Libby, it’s the train guy that you like. And Libby immediately called her boyfriend, you’ll never guess. Everyone else, Paddy McGuiness, Davina McCall, they were all absolutely lovely; but she wasn’t really fazed by. It was the train guy, Francis. 

EMMA- Was there anybody else disabled at the party? I mean, I wasn’t there for a start. But was there anyone else disabled? 

NIKKI- No, having assisted any agency I go to I must be the only disabled. I’ve insisted on that as part of my clause. 

MUSIC- Theme music.

EMMA- Let’s do it.

NIKKI- This is Access All. I’m Nikki Fox and I’m in London. 

EMMA- And I’m Emma Tracey and I’m also in London. 

NIKKI- Woo-hoo. Now, this is your weekly podcast all about disability and mental health from the BBC. Made by the same team as Newscast and Americast, the big boys. If you like it subscribe, share and tell everyone you know about it. 

GEORGINA- Nikki Fox, the presenter of Access All podcast, is sitting in front of a screen with wavy purple and pink lines on it. And possibly in a departure from her normal outfit, she’s wearing a Santa Claus red cape with a white collar and has a green bauble dangling from her microphone. 

EMMA- Nikki, you changed? 

NIKKI- I love you. It’s not my usual get-up.

EMMA- No. When did you do that? That’s so funny. I’m really glad I know what you look like now. But that is the voice of Georgina Rose, audio describer extraordinaire. We’ve mentioned it a few times over the last few months so we’ve had Naked Attraction: 

GEORGINA- Trouser snakes.

EMMA- We’ve had Strictly:

GEORGINA- Johannes walks towards Ellie, standing in the centre of the clock face, then takes her hand. They step to the side, extending their arms, then curling their hands into fists while lowering them. 

EMMA- I’d never really thought about the ins and outs of body description. I used it, I listen to it all the time; but since you started asking me questions, Nikki, I have become mildly obsessed with the people involved in audio description and the process. So much so that I invited Georgina Rose to come in for a wee natter. And she’s here!

NIKKI- Oh my goodness, Georgina, this is like for me having George Clooney in the studio. First of all can I just thank you for not saying, ‘Nikki Fox has got 5 inch dark roots’? 

GEORGINA- I very much wouldn’t mention that because otherwise I’d have to say, ‘Georgina Rose, who has hair the same colour as a dead rodent’.

NIKKI- Georgina, that is my natural hair colour actually, you just described that bang on there. 

EMMA- Stop it. I don’t know what the dead rodent’s colour is, so that wouldn’t be an ideal term in my opinion. Sorry Georgina. 

NIKKI- Honestly Emma and Georgina, I’m absolutely obsessed by this, because I think it is the most incredible art form what you do. There’s a real skill, Georgina, because you must have this kind of line to know what you can and can’t say, because I guess you could cross it in a way, couldn’t you? I mean, obviously you’re not going to say, ‘So and so off Strictly has a magnificent rack’ or anything like that. But how much of the personal do you bring into it? Like, how do you know what’s going too far? Do you know what I’m trying to say? 

GEORGINA- Absolutely, and it’s something that we’re always reviewing and talking about to make sure where that line is. We also have the issue of exactly how much time we have to describe someone. If I had all the time in the world I could give so many details about eye colour and their hair and how the person carries themselves. But sometimes we only have maybe three or four seconds to get a very, very quick snapshot of what someone looks like. So, we’ll try to do it, like Emma was saying, in a more broad strokes, just to get across, so the person’s race, an idea of age. But you have to be careful because I don’t want to put someone down in their 50s and they’re actually 47.

NIKKI- I know. 

EMMA- And the race thing is really, really interesting because I watched Bridgerton, and you didn’t personally audio describe that, and I don’t believe your company audio described that, but – I mean, I clearly didn’t read the blurb about what Bridgerton was – but it was like a half an hour in before I realised that unlike other costume dramas the cast wasn’t all white. And it took longer for the describer to mention it. Then on Strictly it was musicals special, and the professional dancers’ number you immediately described the colour of the singers’ skins. But that is so interesting. How do you make that decision? 

GEORGINA- I think it’s really important to say what someone’s skin colour is straightaway when you’re introducing someone for the first time. And those singers I definitely thought that it was important. I’d already introduced all the celebrities and the dancers way back in the launch show with a brief description. So, Jade Adams was a white woman with white blond hair, things like that, because it’s not my job to make a decision for a blind and visually impaired audience as to what they want to know. I want to think about right, what am I seeing, and I’m going to directly relate that to our audience. And I hope that it’s, again it’s something that we’re always talking about, we’re always looking at across lots of different areas, but it’s certainly something. Bridgerton definitely opened up some floodgates about who do we describe, how do we describe them, and it’s always important I think. 

NIKKI- What about the rumpy-pumpy in Bridgerton? That’s where I thought you were going, Emma, if I’m being honest. 

EMMA- Oh, the description was great for that, it was really good. 

GEORGINA- Rumpy-pumpy is my Achilles’ heel, because I get really embarrassed when I’m doing it. And there’s also an element of am I over-describing it and making it a great deal more explicit than actually what is happening on screen. You don’t want to say things are going in things when it’s not actually happening.

EMMA- Well, you have to only say what you can see, right?

NIKKI- Say what you see. 

GEORGINA- So, you’re more sort of describing the intensity of what’s happening and bodies being pressed together, and urgent, hungry kisses.

EMMA- How on earth did you get into this? 

GEORGINA- I did a degree in theatre. And then I worked more part-time jobs than I care to mention. And I started at the BBC as a subtitling assistant. I joined the Access Services department. An opening came up in audio description, which was a very, very small department then. I joined and I’ve been with Red Bee Media for 23 years now. 

NIKKI- And do you love it? 

GEORGINA- I absolutely love my job. I really enjoy it. I love that when I start work in the morning I could be describing a very deep intense documentary, they I will move on to a programme for pre-schoolers, I’ll hop on to a soap before I finish. So, I love the variety of what I do, and particularly Strictly now that that season’s in. I basically elbowed everyone else out of the way.

NIKKI- How long does it take you to audio describe an episode of Strictly?

EMMA- And what is the process? 

NIKKI- And what is it, yeah?

GEORGINA- Okay, so I will get the media file on Monday morning first thing. I will start scripting it. Now, at the moment it’s slightly shorter because there were less dances recently, so that’ll take me about a day, which is a ten-hour shift to get it scripted. 

NIKKI- Yeah, I can imagine it does take that long. 

GEORGINA- I don’t actually send the script off; I voice it straightaway and then it goes. 

NIKKI- Amazing. 

GEORGINA- But now that they’re doubling up the dances I think for the semi-finals, so that will probably take me a good two days. Then I’ll voice that. Then I do the results show as well, so that’s more dances and the repeats of the dances that were on the previous episode. So, it’s normally about three shifts, I would say, and I work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday to get them all done. 

NIKKI- And I know that you wouldn’t say things so mean as people say to me on Twitter like I look like a hamster or something like that. You’d say something nice. 

GEORGINA- My job is to describe what’s in front of me, and I can categorically state you do not look like a hamster. 

NIKKI- Thanks, Georgina, I’m just getting that on the record from the number one audio describer in the country. Thank you. 

EMMA- When you’re watching TV on your sofa do you turn off audio description in your head or are you actually describing what you’re seeing in your head? 

GEORGINA- I am describing all the time. 

NIKKI- I bet you are. It’s a curse.

GEORGINA- Whatever I’m watching it’s always in my head. I’ll be like oh, or I’ll be like, glad I didn’t work on that. I always think I’d like to have a go at Raiders of the Lost Ark where there’s a scene where Indiana Jones has set off a load of booby traps inside a temple, he’s just taken this gold idol off a stone plinth, he thinks he’s home and clear, and he runs through and there’s poison arrows shooting at his head, and then this massive, massive boulder starts rolling down a slope after him. And you’re like, this guy’s going to get squashed. He’s running, he’s running, he’s running. That’s one I’ve always wanted to have a go at. 

NIKKI- I swear, honest, Georgina, you make me want to be blind. [Laughter]. I just closed my eyes then and I’m like, yes! You blind guys have got it made; you’ve got Georgina. 

EMMA- I don’t even know what to say with that. 

NIKKI- No, I’m just well jell. 

EMMA- Or where to go with that. If we do a live podcast in the theatre we should invite Georgina to come to do the audio description for iPlayer for it. 

NIKKI- Yes, I’m in it. 

EMMA- Georgina, thank you. 

MUSIC- Access All. 

NIKKI- This next story is a bit of a toughie. Seven families have just one week to find new residential schooling for their teenage children. Now, that was after they were asked to leave Purbeck View School in Swanage, which is in Dorset, after it was rated inadequate by Ofsted. The parents were told this noise just two weeks ago. Emma, you’ve got more on the story.

EMMA- There are seven pupils who all have complex special educational needs are residential pupils at Purbeck View School, and are settled there. Their parents say the teenagers, who are all 17, have such complex needs it normally takes years to transition them into a new environment. They’re worried that with nowhere for their kids to go they could end up in emergency placements on the other side of the country at Christmas.

NIKKI- This school, which is run by a private company called Cambian, is registered to care for up to 40 children, all with autism and/or learning disabilities. Now, this is the thing, while as a school Ofsted has rated it good, as a social care provider and children’s home it’s been rated as inadequate in the last four inspections. Now, Sarah London is frantically looking for placements for her son, Harrison, and she’s with us today.  Hello Sarah. 

SARAH- Hello.

NIKKI- Thank you so much for talking to us.

SARAH- Not a problem. Thank you for having me. 

NIKKI- Thank you so much. Now, first up Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about Harrison? 

SARAH- Well, Harrison has extremely complex needs. He has autism, severe learning disabilities, he’s profoundly deaf, he’s non-verbal, and he has ADHD and behaviours that are challenged. So, to move him from the only home he can remember is going to be devastating for him. 

NIKKI- And how long has he been where he’s at now? 

SARAH- It’s nearly ten years. He moved to the school when he was seven. 

NIKKI- And how does he feel about the school? 

SARAH- It’s difficult to know because his communication is so limited. But he’s settled and he relies so heavily on consistency and structure that it’s all he’s ever known and he’s settled there. And he very much enjoys his education because it is very structured, and he’s built some great bonds with staff down there. Obviously there are problems within the care provision, and I have been looking to get him moved for over a year now, but due to shortage of placements there’s just been nothing available. 

NIKKI- And what is the situation as you understand it at the moment? What is going to happen?

SARAH- Honestly I’m not sure, because we’ve been given very little information. This is such a short timeframe to try and move children with these kinds of needs. A transition would usually take about two years, so there’s just no way of knowing. But especially because I know there isn’t a placement for Harrison. 

NIKKI- Have you tried to explain this to Harrison, what’s going on?

SARAH- No, we’re not able to say anything to him until we have a new placement sorted. But obviously we’re struggling with that, we now face the fact that he’s going to have no time to process this information and it’s going to be very, very difficult for him to understand why he’s got to leave.

NIKKI- And he’s leaving so quickly. Where is he going to go, Sarah? 

SARAH- I don’t know. It’s been made very clear that it isn’t safe for him to come home. We can’t manage his needs, and I have two other young children and it wouldn’t be safe. And Harrison wouldn’t cope well with it at all. 

NIKKI- So, what’s the worst case scenario then? What are the options? 

SARAH- The absolute worst case for me, for him going into a hospital, which would be devastating because he will not cope with that, will not understand any of it, and it’s not in any way meeting any of his needs. 

EMMA- So, it’s a week away from this recording day that he’s supposed to leave. If nothing’s in place will he actually have to leave next Thursday? How can there be nothing in place? Will the local authority have to jump in and find something for him? 

SARAH- Yes, the local authority is doing all they can, and it is their legal obligation to find somewhere else. But they’ve just been put under so much pressure with this timeframe. And if the places don’t exist they don’t exist, so there’s only so much anyone can do with this. 

EMMA- And what, will they kick him out next week?

SARAH- Potentially yes. I won’t be going to get him, because where would I take him to? 

NIKKI- Yeah.

SARAH- It is his home, and they have a duty of care and a responsibility to those children. 

NIKKI- We know you’re not alone in this, Sarah. There are seven families impacted, aren’t there? And earlier this week dads, Paul Barren and Kevin O’Sullivan, spoke about the impact on their sons, Eden and Louis, and their worries about the situation. 

PAUL- We have no idea where he’ll end up because as a family he can’t actually come back due to the needs that he has and the issues that he has. He has a sibling of five and she would be at risk, so therefore mum and daughter can’t be in the same facility on their own, which means that I would have to stop work. 

KEVIN- We’re concerned that Louis will perceive this as a rejection. He’s had to deal with a lot of loss in his life: he’s had to leave home at the age of eight. And Swanage is a home he’s known for such a long time. So, we’re concerned he’ll actually see it as a loss of trust in us. 

NIKKI- Sarah, do you as a parent have any power in this situation? Are you able to appeal the decision or do anything? 

SARAH- We are challenging the decision legally but again it’s very complicated, it’s not a maintained school, it’s a private company. They’ve removed their exclusion policy off their website, so as parents we don’t know how to appeal directly to them about the exclusion. So, there’s very little we can do. 

NIKKI- When Emma and I were talking about this story as well we kept saying, just before Christmas; it just seems like such a horrendous time to do this as well. 

SARAH- It is. It’s heart-breaking. I know Harrison is requesting information about what’s happening at Christmas, when will he see his family, and I just can’t give them anything. So, it’s just horrible. And they’ve done this to the staff as well; potentially there’s a lot of staff losing their jobs just before Christmas. 

NIKKI- So, during the most recent Ofsted inspection in October 12 children were residents at the school across five houses, including your son. The report found that there were serious and/or widespread failures that mean that children and young people are not protected, or their welfare is not promoted or safeguarded. Now, that’s pretty damning, isn’t it? I mean, are you relieved at all in some ways that your son won’t be there? How do you feel about that? 

SARAH- I’ve known that that has been true for a long time, which is why I decided to move Harrison when they had their first inadequate, so I’ve known there are problems. And in some way it was comforting to finally feel that my fears were reinforced by what Ofsted were saying. And I want him out. I want that perfectly clear. It’s not the right place for him. He is not getting the care he deserves. But this is not the way to do it. 

NIKKI- But again it comes back to that transition process, doesn’t it? 

SARAH- Yes.

NIKKI- And having that time and having that support, and having a suitable provision to go to. 

SARAH- Yes. And of course they’ve chosen all these children that are 17 or over, which seem to be one of the hardest groups to replace because they’re not children and they’re not quite adults. So, where do they go? Harrison can’t get into another school like he’s at because they’ve already started transitioning them out at that age, so they won’t accept someone new coming in; which is completely understandable because it’s a lot of disruption for them. But then why as a care provider have they then chosen this older group of children to be evicted? As a duty of care they’ve not thought about how complex this process is going to be for these seven children. 

NIKKI- Yeah, at that age. 

EMMA- Sarah, I know it’s a difficult thing to think about at the moment because you’re in this position, but what are your long-term hopes for Harrison for his future?

SARAH- My aim for Harrison is to get him close to us and his family, because from the age of seven he was forced out of county because there was no provision for him. He’s missed out on so much, and he deserves to have his family around him. Every day is a struggle for him. The least we can do is give him a family life. 

EMMA- You’ve said what that’s done to him, but what has that done to you having him out of county? 

SARAH- Oh, it’s changed me as a person, as a mother. It’s a devastating thing to hand your child over to essentially strangers, and knowing that you won’t be there to care for them. Especially with Harrison because I can’t phone him, he can’t talk to me. I can’t video chat with him because he’s obsessed with technology, so that would just only cause other issues. 

EMMA- A spokesperson for Purbeck View said, ‘This decision was taken after careful consideration, with the aim to focus staff, to address concerns from Ofsted, and to ensure that we have a service that’s both sustainable and operating at a standard we would expect. We will support the positive transition of the young adults as best we are able on to new services’.

NIKKI- Just quickly, Sarah, how do you feel about that statement? 

SARAH- It’s laughable. How can the transition be positive in any way when you’re giving children with these needs three weeks? And it wasn’t over careful consideration because they have not had a good rating with Ofsted in their care provision since 2014. They had plenty of time to put in measures and make improvements, and they haven’t. 

NIKKI- Sarah, honestly, thank you so much for talking to us about this. Please do keep us updated with any developments and also give our love to your lovely son. 

SARAH- Brilliant, thank you. 

NIKKI- Now, Em, this is part of a much bigger story, isn’t it? 

EMMA- Yeah, that’s right. The government did a review into SEND, that’s special educational needs and/or disabilities, earlier this year after saying the system is failing to deliver for children, young people and their families. It wants to improve the system because it predicts that within ten years there will be close to 100,000 children in care, up from 80,000 today. And that includes all care settings, from residential schools to foster care. The government will publish its national SEND and alternative provision improvement plan next year. 

NIKKI- Now, we do really want to keep across this. Sarah actually got in contact with us on Access All and we looked into this, and that’s how this came about. So, please do keep emailing us with anything you want us to have a little look into, and we will do it. You can email us with all your thoughts and obviously stories on accessall@bbc.co.uk. Or alternatively open up WhatsApp – this is my favourite thing to do – and send us a text or voice note. Our number is 0330 123 9480. 

EMMA- Just a little warning that this next item discusses young people’s mental health and hospitalisation. If that’s not something you want to listen to at the moment come back and listen to us next time.  

NIKKI- Now, we’ve got a jam packed London studio today. I’m normally on my own and Emma’s in Edinburgh, but I’ve got three people with me today and I’m very excited about this. We have first of all got James Ledbetter, aka the Vacuum cleaner. Now, we’re going to get to that in a bit. 

EMMA- James draws on his own experience of mental health disability when collaborating with young people to make art about mental health. Over the years he’s asked hundreds of people to tell him what they would like to see in their perfect mental health ward. He also set up a mental health sanctuary in a disused Argos in St Helens. Yup, he did. 

NIKKI- I love that. 

EMMA- I know! And for his latest project, For They Let in the Light, James spent time in a centre for young people with mental health difficulties during the height of the COVID pandemic.

NIKKI- Now, two of the young people that James met we’ve got them in the studio as well, and I’m very excited. 

EMMA- Woo-hoo. 

NIKKI- We have Violet and Nemo. Not your real names, but I’m digging them. And in fact actually I’m remembering them, which is very unlikely. How is everyone today? Are you all all right? 

ALL- Yes.

NIKKI- That was done in perfect synch. Now, James, let’s get this out of the way first, the elephant in the room, why the Vacuum Cleaner? 

JAMES- So, when I came out of CAMHS myself – CAMHS is Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services – after a few years of that getting stable I started to make art as a way to find my place in the world. The very first thing that I did it involved a vacuum cleaner. And like these two I didn’t want to use my real name so it was just like, well it’s the Vacuum Cleaner. 

NIKKI- So, you would say you have experienced mental health disability –you call it, don’t you, of your own? 

JAMES- Yeah. 

NIKKI- So, how does that inform your life and your work then? Give us kind of an idea. 

JAMES- You make art about what you know, and what I know is my disability, so I make art about that, but increasingly I’m trying to support other people who might not consider themselves professional artists and going, actually you can make art. I’m particularly interested at the moment in young people because of my own experiences of going when I was in hospital as a young person I wanted to do creative things but I just didn’t have that happening in my life, so going actually how can I bring that back for other young people. 

NIKKI- How bad did it get for you? 

JAMES- I was in hospital for a year when I was quite young, and that was scary and long. And then I went through some other challenges around homelessness and some problems in my own life, so things got really bleak for me. 

NIKKI- Really bleak. 

JAMES- Yeah. 

NIKKI- And that experience of being in that kind of setting, for someone has it, what’s your everyday life like when you’re there? 

JAMES- It’s a combination of losing your liberty, so the frustration of that, like you lose control over your life, and just utter boredom. There are some other people nodding right now. 

NIKKI- Violet and Nemo are nodding along very much. 

JAMES- It would be much better if we were using hospitals less. But I also don’t think there’s something inherently bad about being taken out of a situation in your life and going somewhere to rest and recuperate. I don’t think that’s a bad idea. But we shouldn’t be punishing people for that. 

NIKKI- And so this project, For They Let in the Light, this is where you’ve gone around visiting young people in adolescent mental health settings, that’s right? 

JAMES- Yeah. 

NIKKI- What kinds of situations might lead someone to becoming a patient at one of the centres you were working in? 

JAMES- That was in one particular hospital and the young people there were struggling with a range of difficulties from common things like depression and anxiety, but also some experiences of self-harm, some suicidal experiences, also some difficulties with drug injury, psychosis, so it’s a full range. And also that intersecting with learning disabilities and neurodiversity, and then other kinds of social difficulties that a lot of young people are growing up around nowadays. 

NIKKI- Yeah. And what was the impression of the ward that you visited? 

JAMES- I would defer to the words of the two other young people in the room who called it a prison. 

NIKKI- Right. Both nodding, both smiling. Actually let’s introduce you brilliant people in the room with me. I’ve just got to explain for our listeners who can’t see, one is wearing a Wolf Alice top, one of my favourite brands ever, and the other is wearing a Fragile, Do Not touch t-shirt, which I think is absolutely brilliant. That’s Nemo wearing that t-shirt, which is a brilliant way Nemo of saying, back off, I don’t like touching. 

NEMO- It’s on the front and the back. 

NIKKI- It’s on the front and the back, just to be absolutely clear. 

NEMO- Yeah.

EMMA- Nemo, can I tell you my joke? 

NEMO- Go ahead. 

EMMA- What is the scariest thing to read in braille? Do not touch! [Laughter] Anyway, as you were. 

NIKKI- Emma, that was brilliant. Nemo and Violet, thank you so much for being here. If you guys don’t mind, I just want to get an idea of what it’s like being in one of these settings from you guys. Shall I start with you, Violet?

VIOLET- It’s kind of like you’ve been taken from everything you know against your will in some cases, and, I don’t know, it’s terrifying. 

NIKKI- Really? 

EMMA- Because it sounds scary and hard as it is, but with COVID restrictions on top how did that make it harder? 

VIOLET- I wasn’t allowed to see my family. I had to see them through a window for about a month. And then they weren’t allowed to come onto the ward for about three months. Then I was allowed out to see them. 

EMMA- What were the staff like? Did they have to wear masks all the time? Could you see anyone’s face? 

VIOLET- No, we couldn’t see their faces; they did have to wear masks all the time. Most of the nurses were in scrubs or like uniforms, so it just felt very impersonal. When I first got to the ward I had to isolate for about three days in my room on my own. 

EMMA- And that was you coming into a mental health inpatient setting, so you weren’t feeling very well anyway, and you had to stay on your own? 

VIOLET- Yeah. 

NIKKI- And do you mind me asking, Violet, how bad were you feeling at that time? And did you need to be taken out of your environment and put somewhere else at that particular moment? 

VIOLET- Yeah, I was not safe at home. I didn’t get the help that I wanted. I didn’t get a therapist immediately. So, I was in for an eating disorder. Initially I didn’t go in for an eating disorder; I went in for suicide ideation. 

EMMA- So, it sounds like it was pretty bleak. What happened when James came in to visit? What did you guys get up to when James arrived? 

VIOLET- At first I absolutely hated him. 

NIKKI- Oh my goodness!

JAMES- No, no, it’s fine, it’s fine. 

NIKKI- Not James. I loved him immediately. 

VIOLET- Because it was like a change to my routine, and it was different, and these new people came in and they thought they could relate to us. And then he told us about his own struggles and kind of allowed us to relate to him. 

NIKKI- Nemo, can you tell me about your experience of being in one of these inpatient settings? 

NEMO- Like James said, it was the equivalent of the prison, but funded by the NHS. So, the staff were always stressed and they would take it out on us, when we were having our own problems. It made me personally feel like I was an inconvenience for being there. And it was just really difficult being in that situation when I was already in pretty much the worst place you could be. 

NIKKI- Really?

NEMO- Yeah.

NIKKI- How old were you at the time? 

NEMO- When I was first admitted I was 16. I had my 17th birthday on the ward. 

NIKKI- So, when James came and you met him did you take to him straightaway, Nemo, or did you have instant dislike? 

JAMES- You can be honest, it’s fine. I can take it. I’ve had therapy. 

NEMO- They sort of had to prove themselves to me in a way. They weren’t here to hurt me; they were here to help make us feel comfortable and safe and have fun. And that’s what they did. 

EMMA- What would you say to the people who say that the money that’s being spent on art would be better spent on like therapy and medication and research and beds? 

JAMES- I guess so first of all we’re not funded by the NHS, we’re funded through the Arts, so it’s a different funding stream. But also yes, the human brain might need things like medication and therapy and a healthy diet and all those kinds of things, but we’re also talking about the human mind, and the mind is different. The mind needs soothing. And I think one of the amazing things that art can do is sooth the mind. These guys will tell you about what that did for them in terms of being able to talk about what they were going through. The thing that we were trying to do is make a film. Obviously the young people in the hospital couldn’t appear in the film, so we gave them iPhones and we said, ‘You film it, you direct it, you write the script, you write the text, and we’ll get the staff to perform it’. Immediately we’re flipping the power dynamic in that environment. And then we’re saying to the young people, we brought questions in like, why are so many young people struggling with their mental health? You tell us. There are enough researchers looking at the question, but you tell us what’s going on. And then they would write responses to that. And often that began with a sentence, ‘Dear adults….’ And then through that they’re bringing in other material. So, Nemo wrote a song; Violet wrote a letter to ‘my future self that wants to relapse’. So, they were making films that involved, like one of the young people did a whole dance routine where they choreographed all of the staff in the central courtyard where all these guys filmed it. So, it was just about capturing a sense of that environment. 

NIKKI- Why are so many young people right now struggling with their mental health? 

VIOLET- I have a rant about mental health crisis care that I wrote. 

JAMES- This actually opens the piece. 

NIKKI- Violet please, let’s hear this. 

VIOLET- Why is it that those struggling are left until crisis point to receive the care they most desperately need? Why is it that we are left until we are quite literally on our death beds before anyone even believes that we are in pain? Why are so many vulnerable people put in inpatient units as a last resort, when community treatment wasn’t even attempted properly? It is not coincidence that there are more people in crisis than ever, given that we are left alone to deteriorate while being told to have a cup of tea, when in need of real support. As someone who has struggled since age 12 I have been through the system for years, and not only is it not improving, but it’s getting worse. At age 12 when I first presented to CAMHS with severe mental health symptoms I was given medication and told I would grow out of it. I did not grow out of it. I hate to break it to you CAMHS, but a prescription for fluoxetine and six weeks of counselling with a psychologist who didn’t even remember my name is not going to solve anything. CAMHS is impersonal and ineffective, treating young people with mental health struggles as problems that are inconvenient to them. It took me to reach crisis before anyone took my struggles seriously. And by then it was too late, and I was beyond the point of believing there was any hope for me to get better. I was put into a ward against my will, my rights and belongings stripped of me, and I was forced into treatment. This is not recovery; this is traumatising for anyone, let alone a child. We are not being listened to. Stories of children dying in inpatient units across the country are horrific and scary, that children are allowed to take their own lives in places meant to keep them safe, that wait lists for support can be up to two years, and even then medication is forced down your throat and you are told to shut up and stop being dramatic, that people have it worse. Things need to change drastically, and if you keep quiet about this you are part of the problem. 

NIKKI- Oh Violet, that’s so powerful the way you’ve written that. Thank you for sharing that with us. Honestly, thank you so much. 

EMMA- Thank you Violet. 

NIKKI- Can I just ask Nemo and Violet, are you doing okay at the moment? Are you in a good place? 

VIOLET- Yeah.

NEMO- I’m fine. 

NIKKI- Nemo’s fine. 

EMMA- Grand.

JAMES- That’s what Nemo says to everything. But if you dig a little bit below that you’re doing incredible, compared to where you were when I met you a year and a half ago, the transformation is ridiculous. You're now at the BBC, you’re showing in a major London gallery. That’s a phenomenal transformation. 

NIKKI- Thank you James, thank you Nemo, thank you Violet. It’s been really wonderful, so thank you so much and thank you for sharing your personal stories. 

EMMA- We spoke to the NHS trust that Violet and Nemo’s care falls under to get its point of view. We’re keeping the trust’s name anonymous to protect the identities of both young people. this is what it had to say: 

NHS TRUST- When young people come to the point of needing hospital admission it comes at a difficult and unsettling period in their lives, both they and their parents and guardians have quite likely been on a long and upsetting journey. They can feel quite desperate, out of control and extremely worried about the deteriorating situation. Despite out adolescent mental health unit having a positive impact on many, it can be hard for young people to trust that things will get better and that treatment plans will help them get back on track in the end. We are really sorry that it has felt so difficult for these young people. We are supporting our staff to deliver the best care, and are working with service users to listen and learn from their experiences as well as develop services to support more young people at home. 

EMMA- Nemo and Violet though? 

NIKKI- I know, they were amazing. That takes a lot as well to open up like that. 

EMMA- Yeah, absolutely. And James was all right too, wasn’t he?

NIKKI- Yeah, James was great. It’s been a great show. Thank you so much for listening. Now, as always you can email us. The email address is accessall@bbc.co.uk. And if you want to grab your blower now…

EMMA- My blower?

NIKKI- Telephone Ems, telephone. 

EMMA- Oh yeah, okay. 

NIKKI- Open up WhatsApp and put our number in, save it, drop us a voice note or send us a message. The number is 0330 123 9480.

EMMA- And put Access at the start please. 

NIKKI- Yeah, that’ll help us out a bit. 

EMMA- And we listen to every message. 

NIKKI- We do. And thank you very much for listening, and we will see you again next week when we will drop it like another pod like it’s hot, drop it like it’s hot. Bye. 

EMMA- Bye. 

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