Access All Christmas Special - Best Bits of 2022

29th December 2022

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 33

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

NIKKI-          Hi everyone, it’s Nikki and Emma here.

EMMA-         We’re passionate about stories on disability, mental health and wellbeing, and we really want more people to hear them through this pod, Access All.

NIKKI-          So, if you can please can you follow and subscribe to Access All on BBC Sounds, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. It really helps others find this pod, and we’d really appreciate it.

                     I love karaoke Emma. I love it.

EMMA-         Do you? Oh, we must go for some karaoke. I’m really excited about that, because I bought myself – I mean I bought my niece, not myself – my niece a karaoke machine for Christmas.

NIKKI-          Right, your niece?

EMMA-         Yes, my niece, who I’ll be in the house with all over Christmas, obviously.

NIKKI-          Yeah, great present.

EMMA-         I am so excited. Karaoke is mildly accessible if you know the words to the song.

NIKKI-          Good point.

EMMA-         It’s not accessible if you don’t know the words to the song because you can’t read the words to the song.

NIKKI-          Have they not got braille karaoke?

EMMA-         So, [in weary tone] I think in could hook up my braille display to my phone, and get the lyrics off of an app.

NIKKI-          Let’s not be lazy about this, Ems, come on.

EMMA-         Oh, I’m so lazy. I mean, the reason that karaoke isn’t accessible to me is because I’m so lazy.

NIKKI-          I used to go three times a week, every week, for several years.

EMMA-         Oh my gosh.

NIKKI-          Yeah, and I won a few competitions.

EMMA-         Wow!

NIKKI-          On a Saturday night we had karaoke in our local pub, and I was studying music at the time. I was really into The Cranberries. About 10 o’clock everyone was having a drink, they wanted an upbeat, they want I Will Survive. And I was like [sings to the tune of Zombie] , and their tanks, and their bombs, and their bombs, and their guns – and everyone was like open mouthed at me.

EMMA-         So, did you put on the accent as well?

NIKKI-          Yeah, full accent for the whole lot.

EMMA-         I’m more of a sort of Grease mega mix, Hopelessly Devoted, Eternal Flame sort of person.

NIKKI-          That’s better.

EMMA-         Living on a Prayer, Sweet Child of Mine, Bohemian Rhapsody, give it welly. Can we go to karaoke in the New Year then?

NIKKI-          Yes. Let’s do our own New Year’s Eve party in January.

EMMA-         This is my role in this podcast, so forgive me for saying this, but should we throw in a few disability related songs?

NIKKI-          Oh stuff that, Ems. It’s not all about disability. I’d get bored of it, love.

MUSIC-         Theme music.

NIKKI-          It’s Access All. I’m Nikki Fox and I’m joined by my beautiful co-host and very good friend, Emma Tracey, currently trying to decompress from a hugely busy year.

EMMA-         Yeah, it was busy, but for us it’s been an absolutely huge success. Since we started back in April we’ve created some really memorable moments I would say.

NIKKI-          I have loved doing this podcast, Emma. It’s definitely – don’t tell Watchdog, the One Show or the news – but my favourite job.

EMMA-         Oh, that makes me so happy.

NIKKI-          I just love coming in and having a chat with you.

EMMA-         What were your standout moments, would you say?

NIKKI-          There were so many. Sam Renke, she’d just written a book, Best Thing Since Sliced Bread, she was phenomenal. I loved Anne Hegerty. I loved Rosie Jones. I mean, these are all the celeb fancy pants ones. I would say I loved Ellie but you went and did that interview on your own, didn’t you Emma?

EMMA-         Yeah, I loved Ellie.

NIKKI-          I’m not over that. But also all the guests, you know the stories that we’ve been telling over the last few months, and we get to speak to some wonderful people.

EMMA-         It’s the people, the disabled people who get in touch and tell us their stories, and then come on and share it with us really publicly, when it’s really difficult for them. That is a real honour. I’ve found the whole thing very cathartic because I’ve sort of splurged about my own stuff, about exercise and accessibility and people saying that my kids are my carers. It’s felt like a great space, because you get it, you understand, you’re disabled too, you’re a woman.

NIKKI-          How very dare you, how, how…

EMMA-         I just think that’s been fun for me as well to share stuff like that too.

Remember you can listen back to all of our previous episodes by searching BBC Access All on your BBC Sounds app. We thought we’d take this opportunity during Crimbo limbo week to reflect.

NIKKI-          Yeah, we’re going to have a little delve into a bit of disability showbiz, a bit of the old razzle dazzle. There’s lots more disables on the telly now, Em, which is good, isn’t it? We need a few more though.

EMMA-         When I think back to when I was a kid the only people I can actually bring to mind are Willow, Warwick Davis, who we’re hoping to have on soon, and then Corky from Life Goes On, who had Down’s Syndrome. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that?

NIKKI-          No.

EMMA-         I think it was bigger in Ireland than it was in the UK.

NIKKI-          No.

EMMA-         Yeah, so it was this American drama. And it was the first time I’ve ever seen a person with Down’s Syndrome in an acting role.

NIKKI-          I don’t remember anyone, Ems. I don’t remember growing up seeing anyone disabled.

EMMA-         Do you think it’s because you didn’t really know you were disabled when you were a kid? Because I think, I knew I was blind, but I hadn’t connected that with the disability community or being disabled. So, I remember seeing Mary go blind in Little House on the Prairie, and Lucy go blind in Neighbours, and they kind of registered with me; it was something I could relate to.

NIKKI-          Spuggie, me eyes. Do you remember that? That was Byker Grove.

EMMA-         Oh, Byker Grove?

NIKKI-          Yeah. Ant and Dec, wasn’t it?

EMMA-         Yeah. I remember lots of people going blind, but I don’t think I knew I was disabled, if that makes sense.

NIKKI-          No, I didn’t either. Me and my sister grew up both of us as disable, and even though we used to stand in front of the telly with my mum in little callipers looking like two little robots, I didn’t feel any different. Even when I went to school, I remember I used to do all the dance classes and everything. I used to love it. I went around telling everyone I was going to be a ballerina, with no concept of being disabled. And then I did a dance once for the school end of year assembly, or whatever it was, and they videoed it – good old video, back in the day, in 1608. When I watched it back I turned to my friend and I went, ‘Who’s that disabled bird ruining the shot?’

EMMA-         But actually when I found out I was disabled it was great and I really embraced the disability community.

NIKKI-          It was different when you were younger.

EMMA-         And I am extraordinarily excited when we meet famous disabled people. And one of your favourites is our next clip, isn’t it?

NIKKI-          Oh yes, I adore her. After we did our interview I stalked her on every social media platform, begged her to follow me so that I could keep in contact with her. It’s only Rosie Jones. 

ROSIE-          [Jingle bells] Hello. How are you?

NIKKI-          So good for seeing you.

ROSIE-          I feel like I need to explain my voice, not the disabled part, but it’s a little bit deep and husky. Hello.

NIKKI-          And why’s it so deep and husky?

ROSIE-          I’ve been in Edinburgh. I drunk all the alcohol, I was screaming my head off, and now I’ve ruined it. I think it makes me sound quite…

NIKKI-          Sexy.

ROSIE-          …sexy.

NIKKI-          Yeah, I’m with you. Sexy.

ROSIE-          Growing up in the ‘90s being disabled, being the first person with a disability to go to my mainstream school was hard. And to add onto it I was having feelings for other girls. I remember wanting to kiss a girl in my class when I was four.

NIKKI-          No!

ROSIE-          Four years old. But because it was the ‘90s, because on TV, in books there was no disabled people, and when they were rarely on TV they were the victims, they were vulnerable, they were the villains. And god forbid, none of them were having sex. No one was, oh my god, in a loving relationship. When I was old enough I thought no, I want to put this right. But even nowadays I couldn’t believe the lack of disabled characters in children’s books.

EMMA-         Yeah. So, you wanted to change that?

ROSIE-          Yes. So, that’s why I wrote Edie. I don’t think it’s a spoiler because everyone out there should have read the first book at least.

NIKKI-          [Jingle bells] And that was the lovely Rosie talking about her book, the Amazing Edie Eckhart. And I just absolutely loved talking to her. And that clip has just reminded me for the moment where it was like, oh it’s really nice, isn’t here, to hear somebody who has a similar experience to you. Because I grew up not knowing anyone who was disabled, so did my sister, we just knew each other. And we were the first disabled people to go to a mainstream school. I had a lot of similarities to Rosie. And also, I suppose you might have felt this too, Ems, working in this industry now, I remember part of her interview she was talking about a lot of the shows that she works on, a lot of the comedy shows, and she was talking about getting really knackeroonied. At first she was sort of pushing herself beyond her limits and she would be like, yes of course I can climb those four flights of stories, I’ll be absolutely fine, no worries at all. But now she’s got to a point where she’s not feeling like she has to please or hustle. She’s established, she feels she’s in a safe position to put her foot down and go no, if you want me we need to be working in an accessible location. I’m not going to climb four flights of stairs and then start recording a show and be absolutely exhausted. So, I love that because I often feel a bit like that as well working in this industry.

EMMA-         Yeah, I think we do try and push ourselves and get round stuff when really the ideal thing would be to ask for the proper accommodations.

NIKKI-          But it’s also hard when you feel like you’re trying to climb that ladder, isn’t it, and you’re trying to get to where you want to be. And it does take a little longer I think for some disabled people. It certainly has for me; it’s taken absolutely yonky doodles. I’m 42.

EMMA-         But our production that really realised that and worked really, really hard to make everyone comfortable was Ralph and Katie. A feel-good drama, still on iPlayer, and the leads are two actors with Down’s Syndrome, Leon and Sarah, playing Ralph and Katie a married couple.  

NIKKI-          It was a spinoff of the A Word, wasn’t it?

EMMA-         It was a spinoff of the A Word, exactly, which is a really popular drama about a little boy who’s autistic. So, we got to speak to Leon and Sarah and ask them all about the filming and being on the show. It was just such a lovely experience.

NIKKI-          [Jingle bells] What I love about the whole programme is okay, you guys both have Down’s Syndrome, and you’re touching on areas that other people may not be familiar with, but it’s not about that at all. You’re just any married couple. Jules, I wanted to ask you, was that kind of the main drive with the series?

JULES-          It’s about a married couple just navigating through friendship, jealousy, tensions, parents potentially splitting up. And it was really important that that was the driving force. We have an amazing group of five disabled writers that worked with each other, and they all had an episode each, and they’ve all done some fantastic stories. And Down’s is touched upon occasionally. Katie gets very angry in episode one about assumptions people make about her because of her Down’s Syndrome.

KATIE-          Every day of my life people think I can’t do things for myself. Every day I have to take that shit. But not from you, not from my husband!

JULES-          They’re just people. And these guys, when they talk about their Down’s Syndrome, they talk about it being not how they want to be described.

NIKKI-          That’s it.

JULES-          Isn’t that right, Sarah?

SARAH-        It’s not about disabilities and it’s not about Down’s Syndrome; it’s about the person behind it basically. That’s what I’m always pointing out.

EMMA-         Assumptions. Ooh, that grinds my gears, I tell you.

NIKKI-          Sarah, what was your favourite filming day?

SARAH-        When Ralph and Katie get together and have a talk about what’s wrong with Ralph. Because it was very, very windy and very, very wet and you can’t even hear my voice that well.

JULES-          Sarah’s very good at remembering the worst day, aren’t you Sarah? That was in the Lake District. How many layers of clothes did you have on in the Lake District, Sarah? Can you remember?

SARAH-        I can’t remember. Was it 13?

JULES-          It was a lot of layers, wasn’t it? It’s a lovely scene with you and Nigel, who plays your dad, it was a lovely scene, but you were absolutely bloody freezing, sorry, you were absolutely freezing, weren’t you? I can tell you one big secret about Leon Harrop: in the episode three where he’s hurt his leg and he was on the sofa a lot, he was so tired that he quite often fell asleep.

NIKKI-          Leon!

                     [Jingle bells] That was Jules there as well who we had, who was part of the production team. Was Jules the producer?

EMMA-         Jules was the producer yes, and she was kind of giving us the intel. Maybe some of the stories that Leon and Sarah weren’t going to share she shared on their behalf, which I thought was very nice of her all together, wasn’t it. And you can still watch it on iPlayer, as I say, and it’s well worth it.

NIKKI-          Oh, it’s well worth it.

EMMA-         And it finishes off at Christmastime so it’s absolutely ideal for this time of year.

NIKKI-          I got dead hooked when I was doing my prep for that. I loved it, loved it. you’ve got another show on TV at the moment, Ems, one of my absolute favourite shows, because you know obviously I wanted to be a dancer. In my head I choreograph full routines. It’s [Strictly Come Dancing theme music plays].

EMMA-         Strictly Come Dancing.

NIKKI-          I’m so sad that you got to interview Ellie Simmonds while I wasn’t here. I was away. I’ve never regretted a holiday so much as when I found out that Ellie and Nikita were coming on. No, it was just Ellie, wasn’t it, sorry.

EMMA-         It was Ellie. Her partner, Nikita Kuzmin wasn’t available to come on.

NIKKI-          I love Nikita as well. Isn’t Nikita diabetic?

EMMA-         Yes, type 1 diabetes, so everyone can see the monitor on his arm when he’s dancing. And it’s a really good way for people to feel seen as well. what a great couple and what a great interview Ellie was.

EMMA-         [Jingle bells] And how did you and he adapt the dances?

ELLIE-          So, at the start when we first started training he just started chatting to me and just got to understand what I could do, what I couldn’t do. And from thereon when we got really comfortable and really good friends with each other we would just chat about it, and he’d be like, ‘Can you do this? Can you do that?’ And then when he got to know me he just thought of all the ideas in his mind. So, it was the stride length, it was again with dwarfism and achondroplasia I’ve got bowing of the legs, so with the Cha-Cha-Cha and some of the leg movements you’ve got to go fully straight which I can’t do, so he was aware of that. Again, the height difference with the hold, the likes of the Paso Doble he was doing a lot of it on his knees. And he was just doing the dances so it just worked and suited for me, so on a Saturday night it was able for me to go out there and shine because of the ideas and the choreography and the things that he did.

We would get a couple of hours off before we start back on Monday, and on those times where I would be resting, I would be sleeping and catching up, he would be working away and thinking of the dance for the week ahead. So, in a way these pro dancers they never stop. They’re literally amazing. They’re thinking of things, they’re dancing, they’re dancing with us, they’re teaching us, they’re doing stuff all the time. And for him having that extra just bit of a challenge, which wasn’t a challenge for him; he absolutely loved it.

EMMA-         Do you think actually being a Paralympian helped with the training and the kind of approach to it all?

ELLIE-          It did help, no definitely, because some of the skills that I learnt from my swimming days, not just physical but mental, with the nerves and the pressure, those skills that I did when I was a swimmer to cope with those I did it on a Saturday night.

EMMA-         So, what kinds of skills? What can I learn?

ELLIE-          So, when you get really, really nervous again your heart rate raises. For me I just think about my breathing, I focus on something that’s stable. So, when I would walk on the dancefloor I would either look at Nikita or I would look at the glitter ball up on the roof; just two things to forget about all the people that are watching, to forget about the TV, to forget about the judges and the spectators. Those little things. And just realising that nerves are okay, it shows that you care, it shows that you want to go out there and do well, it’s passion. So, just flicking it from the anxiety side and thinking it’s positive, your body’s getting ready to go out there and show the world what it’s made of.

EMMA-         Do you get to keep your costumes? Does everyone get to keep them? I’m very keen that you get to keep those dresses basically.

ELLIE-          Yes, I’ve taken two actually, my two favourite ones. I’ve just kept them for myself as a memory. It was the gold dress on my first dance, and my red dress on my last dance. And it was so nice of them. I probably won’t wear them when I’m going out to the shops or anything, but they’re definitely ones that I’ll just keep as fond memories.

NIKKI-          You’re listening to the BBC’s disability and mental health podcast, Access All. And we’re going through some of our favourite clips of the year.

EMMA-         On 8th September this year Queen Elizabeth II died at 96 years old. While she was lying in state a shorter accessible queue was devised for disabled people who wanted to visit Westminster Hall.

NIKKI-          Now, lying in state is the very formal occasion in which a coffin is placed on view to allow the public to pay their respects in the days before the funeral. All you needed to do was show your blue parking badge. So, I went to speak to the people who were waiting in that separate queue.

FEMALE-      Yeah. This is my son, he’s my carer.

MALE-          It’s been pretty well organised and that. There could be a more few seats maybe. You got married on the Coronation day, didn’t you?

FEMALE-      Yes, I got married.

MALE-          So, it’s an association with the Queen that sort of goes back a long time.

FEMALE-      She got married on the second and we got married on the sixth. She had a horrible day; we had a lovely day.

MALE-          In terms of weather you’re talking about.

FEMALE-      I mean weather, yes.

NIKKI-          I was going to say! Why was it important for you to come here?

FEMALE-      I just wanted to come along.

NIKKI-          Just be part of it.

FEMALE-      It just makes me cry.

NIKKI-          Oh, don’t cry.

FEMALE-      I know, just thinking of it. She was our Queen for so long. I was seven when she was crowned. You just want to be able to say you’ve done it, to be quite honest.

NIKKI-          And do you think you could have done it if they hadn’t had this, the access sorted?

FEMALE-      No. I needed the accessible definitely. I couldn’t have walked.

EMMA-         That must have been quite a moment, Nikki. And you were right in the middle of it.

NIKKI-          Yeah, I know. It wasn’t quite as chock-a-block as I thought it would be when I got down there, but it was a very special moment. Of course this queue was the accessible queue, so it wasn’t the queue as we saw on TV, miles and miles and miles. But they had to go to another location beforehand and there was some queuing involved there. some people had been sort of up and at it for a good couple of hours, so it wasn’t the smoothest ride for a lot of people, but they made it nonetheless.

                     Now, we’ve pulled together four of our favourite chatting moments, Emma. Are you ready for this?

EMMA-         I am.

NIKKI-          We’ve really got to know each other on our podcast. Should’ve really done it in private.

EMMA-         Now, talking about the clips that are coming up, I was absolutely shocked to learn that you don’t like dressing up for Halloween, because you’re such a party girl and such a glamour puss. That’s a weird phrase, isn’t it, glamour puss?

NIKKI-          I’ll take glamour puss, I like it.

EMMA-         You’re such a glamour puss that I just thought you’d be really into it.

NIKKI-          Oh no, no. Halloween can do one.

EMMA-         I don’t like dressing up either because I don’t know what I look like. I don’t know what other people are supposed to look like. How am I supposed to know how I’m supposed to look when I’m someone else?

NIKKI-          From my perspective, when you grow up as a disabled minger – which is basically what I was, Ems. I mean there are photos out there, I wish you could see them. There’s one that horrifies everybody.

EMMA-         Listen, I can’t see them and I don’t believe you.

NIKKI-          No, literally there’s one where I had ridiculous peach blusher on, bright amber hair, I mean it was all going on.

EMMA-         You didn’t even need a costume.

NIKKI-          No, I didn’t. Exactly. I was scarier than anything you could dress up in on Halloween. And it’s taken me years to look the way I want to look, as best as I can, so why then revert back to making yourself look awful?

EMMA-         But I don’t think dressing up has to look awful anymore. I mean, I looked awful.

NIKKI-          No.

EMMA-         I’m still getting over, to be honest, your reaction to my fail safe, go-to Halloween costume.

NIKKI-          The binbag.

EMMA-         Yeah, the binbag.

NIKKI-          [Jingle bells] The only time I had to dress up was for my friend’s hen do, and I can’t remember where we were, Magaluf or somewhere like that. And I was a part-time wheelchair user at the time. I think they were going as the emergency services or whatever, so I just said to my very good friend, Lee, you go as a nurse, I’ll go as the patient in the wheelchair. And then we just literally got an old rag, and I put some red lipstick on it and I tied it round my head like a bandana.

EMMA-         That’s perfect.

NIKKI-          That’s the most effort I’ve ever gone to.

EMMA-         As a kid I was always the one in the binbag, always. I just didn’t know what else to do.

NIKKI-          In a binbag, what?

EMMA-         You know you wear a black bag.

NIKKI-          Why did you wear a black bag, Em?

EMMA-         I don’t know. It’s something to do with…

NIKKI-          Who told you to do that? Who told you to wear a black bag?

EMMA-         Other people were doing it as well.

NIKKI-          Somebody was taking the mickey.

EMMA-         Do you think I was the only one in a black bag?

NIKKI-          I think you might have been the only one in a black bag. And I’ll tell you something, Emma, if we’d have been friends that would have not have passed on my watch.

                     [Jingle bells] My first job with a company was working for a supermarket; I had two different supermarket jobs. I was a checkout assistant. I used to love it very, very much. It was around about that time, this was getting late ‘90s now, where diversity ticks were coming in and companies were having to be a little bit more aware of employing disabled people. Because I remember I got both jobs without an actual face-to-face interview. They were just so pleased that I’d applied, that I was fairly able to do the job and I was disabled, so happy days. So, basically I just sat on the checkouts. And it was a job that I loved because I love a good old chat, so I loved talking to customers. And then obviously it all went media, media, media, but those were my first two proper jobs.

EMMA-         And what did you learn as a disabled person from doing those jobs?

NIKKI-          I mean, I learnt in hindsight, back then I probably should have said a few more things, but I was just insistent that I was able to do everything. So, checkout, fine, my arms were just about strong enough to sweep everything through; could take the money, all hunky dory. Except for when there was a massive sporting event coming on and people bought crates of like 24 bottles of lager. And I was like there’s no way I’ve got the strength to scan that through, so I just used to ask customers to scan their own beers. So, I learnt that I’m resilient.

EMMA-         That’s fine. People are used to that now.

NIKKI-          Yeah, I used to go, excuse me sir, or madam, you probably can’t tell but I’m actually disabled, would you mind just sweeping those beers through the checkout because they’re too heavy for me, my arms won’t take it. Come up with a little gag, ha-ha-ha, thank you very much, could you also pack your own stuff. Have a lovely day.

EMMA-         And did it always work out?

NIKKI-          Yeah, it did.

EMMA-         Did people always just say, oh yeah, cool?

NIKKI-          Yeah, I had the longest queue because I used to have a nice little chat with everyone. The only thing the boss used to say was, Nikki, you need to be a little bit quicker, not in the scanning, but stop talking so much.

EMMA-         And what did the bosses think of you getting people to scan their own stuff?

NIKKI-          I never told them, Ems. Oh my goodness, I was the OG self-checkout.

                     [Jingle bells] When I met Dave I was 40, and I knew pretty much that I loved him. He knows that. And I know that he loved me too, but obviously he took a little bit longer because I’m just an open book and I just look at him and I’m like I love you, not playing it cool in the slightest. But I’ve had to learn to not be perfect all the time. And what I mean by that is I’m very independent, I have my PAs, I’ve got my job, I want people to see the happy, fun, bubbly Nikki all the time. Which is just ridiculous, you can’t live that way. And when you have a boyfriend obviously you have to let go. I’ve had to allow him to do some things for me, like personal things that I do with my PAs, which I never dreamed of doing that with another fella.

The big thing for me when I started dating Dave was I was thinking okay, so when I go to the bathroom I will need a bit of a hand, that is just to sit down and to stand up, okay. But I need someone; I can’t do it without someone. That ship sailed back in my 20s. And I was like how do I do that, because if I’m going to spend any longer than eight hours with him, I’m going to have to ask him. So, when we first started dating I planned it so that one of my PAs would meet me wherever we were and I would sneak off for 15 minutes and come back. Then I was like okay, this isn’t going to be viable long term, right. He’s so intuitive my fella, and so empathetic and wonderful, I remember this distinctly: we were like a good couple of months in, we were getting to the point where we were definitely going to be staying over with each other, and as we were saying goodbye he came to my window and he goes, ‘Well, I guess for you now you’ve just got to put up with me giving you a hand going to the bathroom, haven’t you?’ And I was like ah, and I cried a bit.

NIKKI-          [Jingle bells] We went to see the Fleet Foxes in concert.

EMMA-         You went to a concert? Lovely.

NIKKI-          I went to a concert. You know my love for music.

EMMA-         Yes.

NIKKI-          I love the Fleet Foxes. I introduced Rach to the Fleet Foxes, Rachel being my sister. She also quite fancies the lead singer. But yeah, we drove all the way up. My boyfriend came; Rach and her PA came, Soph. And we had a lovely old time. And honestly, Emma, nothing happened that like caused any problemos, what with two disableds going on tour and going to a concert.

EMMA-         Parking was okay?

NIKKI-          Parking was dandy. Hotel was brilliant.

EMMA-         The viewing platform was all right?

NIKKI-          It was lovely. It was at the back, but the venue that we went to wasn’t enormous. No one’s heads were blocking my view. We were right by the bar. Honestly, we got really looked after. The only thing Rach and I, my sister, we were going to get two taxis, accessible taxis, and we dialled and it seemed there was only one in the area. So, I gave that taxi to Rach and my boyfriend was like, I’ll drive. He’s got a big van, he’s got a ramp, stick the old chair in the back. So, it was all a bit off the cuff. But we did it and it was lovely.

EMMA-         So, you didn’t fall off the viewing platform?

NIKKI-          Didn’t fall of the viewing platform, no we did not, no. And they were brilliant the Fleet Foxes. Honestly, see them live. They are amazing.

EMMA-         Yeah. You weren’t asked for proof of disability on the way in or anything?

NIKKI-          [Laughs] No. Do you know what, surprisingly Emma, the two girls that rocked up in their electric wheelchairs with headrests weren’t asked if they were disabled.

EMMA-         Well, I’ve heard of people being asked for medical evidence before they go into a concert. Is that person…? Do you really need that carer with you? What are they actually going to do for you? Could you not go in without them?

NIKKI-          No, it was more like, do you want another carer.

EMMA-         [Jingle bells] That was so funny.

NIKKI-          Honestly, it still makes me laugh.

EMMA-         If you thought that was funny, this next bit is just…it made me howl.

NIKKI-          I love this bit so much.

[Jingle bells] But Dave, our studio manager behind the glass, we call him the wizard. He’s a technical genius. He sent us this video the other day. It’s from a blind influencer and she’s telling us about an unexpected photo she received. Now, even though people know she can’t see it seems that some men like to send her pictures that she describes as:

CLAIRE-        A lot of lower regional area pictures from guys.

NIKKI-          She has to use AI technology to tell her what is in pictures, and the technology isn’t always perfect.

CLAIRE-        Maybe they don’t believe I’m blind, but I rely on a screen reader to narrate my phone to me, and it also narrates images. And I have just received an image, and I have to share this with you, this is what my screen reader has described to me: ‘One face, probably a mushroom growing in the ground’.

EMMA-         So, obviously it looked at the picture that Claire Sisk got sent, that’s the influencer we’re talking about here, and decided that rather than the lower regions of a man, it was probably a mushroom growing in the ground.

NIKKI-          Oh, I just love it so much. What else could you use to describe? That’s brilliant.

EMMA-         Well, I’m sort of hoping a cucumber maybe.

NIKKI-          Aubergine.

EMMA-         What’s AI technology, Nikki?

NIKKI-          Artificial intelligence, doody.

EMMA-         What does it mean?

NIKKI-          Emma, you’re testing me. This isn’t on the script. I’m thinking Terminator, Skynet.

EMMA-         Isn’t it the technology is sort of using intelligence, or whatever that means, to kind of guess at stuff to be a bit more human? Is that what it is?

NIKKI-          Yes, Emma Tracey, that’s what it is. Emma Tracey, I don’t have any idea.

EMMA-         I know, that’s why I asked you!

NIKKI-          I always say AI but what is it? I think robots, do you know what I mean?

EMMA-         Well, I just thought if I heard AI technology I might not necessarily know what it means. But I also knew you didn’t know what it means, that’s why I asked you.

NIKKI-          I’ll tell you what, I’d love to know what the audio description is like for Naked Attraction.

EMMA-         What is that? Is that the programme where everyone has to get naked the first time they meet?

NIKKI-          Get their bits and bobs out yeah, yeah, yeah. You choose someone by your naked body.

EMMA-         Well, the first time I ever went to the cinema to see audio description it was for Brokeback Mountain, which has quite a lot of sex scenes. Or maybe it only has one sex scene, but it seemed like a long sex scene because it was audio description and I wasn’t used to that.

NIKKI-          Oh amazing. What did they say?

EMMA-         So, I can’t remember the exact description from Brokeback Mountain, but the kind of thing audio describers usually say is, ‘She looked into his eyes lovingly. He puts his arm around her and draws her in for a deep kiss’.

NIKKI-          Oh, a deep kiss.

EMMA-         Yeah.

NIKKI-          Wowzers. What about 50 Shades of Grey?

EMMA-         I haven’t watched that, Nicola.

NIKKI-          No, I haven’t either. But can you imagine the audio description on that?

EMMA-         You see, I read a lot of audio books as well so I’m used to other voices saying really sort of – not that I listen to audio porn – but really sort of sexy things.

NIKKI-          I’m doing that really annoying thing, because I don’t have a clue what it’s like, getting all excited about it and sounding a bit like a bit of a perv.

EMMA-         It would be quite good if there was an audio describer that just followed me around.

NIKKI-          That would be good.

EMMA-         Just saying, ‘Nikki sits down in the studio. She looks tired, but ready for a great podcast’.

NIKKI-          That’s quite good, that. ‘Nikki clearly missed her mouth when she drunk her coffee and had stains all over her top. Nikki couldn’t find a brush this morning.’ Dave, the wizard in the studio, didn’t bank on us doing this when he sent us that clip.

EMMA-         Oh my gosh, Dave has found us a clip of the TV show Naked Attraction.

NIKKI-          Oh Dave, you filthy, filthy genius. [Music] Stop it!

CLIP-             She scans the smorgasbord of shlongs on display…

NIKKI-          No!

CLIP-             …from lengthy trouser snakes to peckers.

NIKKI-          No!

CLIP-             Ally purses her lips, browsing the offerings like she’s perusing a dinner menu.

NIKKI-          Oh that is…she said shlong!

EMMA-         And trouser snake.

NIKKI-          Browsing like she’s browsing a dinner menu.

EMMA-         But this is not objective. Audio description is supposed to be reasonably informative. But they’re just throwing in words there.

NIKKI-          I don’t know what it’s like to not see, but if I couldn’t see I’d want to hear the word schlong.

EMMA-         But trouser snake though. If you can’t see and you don’t read magazines and stuff you might not even know what a trouser snake is.

NIKKI-          No, that’s true. But browsing the various schlongs like she’s browsing a dinner menu.

EMMA-         It’s one of the usual describers as well. I’ve heard her describe Coronation Street, children’s stuff on CBeebies. The describers are my friends now. And when I hear them say that sort of chat I’m like how can I now listen to you do the Twirlywoos tomorrow morning?

NIKKI-          This has thrown you, hasn’t it, Ems?

EMMA-         It’s just I wish it wasn’t her. I wish it was someone else.

NIKKI-          Oh, you like her. You know this…

EMMA-         She’s like a middle aged lady. She seems like a nice lady.

NIKKI-          She’s having a whale of a time. That’s the best gig she’s ever had. She didn’t mention the pubic hair, but then pubic hair it’s gone now, hasn’t it? We’re all bald, aren’t we?

EMMA-         No comment.

NIKKI-          [Jingle bells] Oh, we have had a bit of a blast this year, haven’t we?

EMMA-         We have.

NIKKI-          It’s been brilliant, Ems. We’ve had Paralympians, actors, Strictly contestants, a governess, a baroness and an astronaut. Blimey, when you say it like that.

EMMA-         Quite a list. What was your best moment of the last year and what would you like to see more of? Tell us. You can email accessall@bbc.co.uk, tweet @BBCAccessAll, Instagram also @BBCAccessAll, or send a voice note to our WhatsApp 0330 123 9480. And remember to start your message with the word Access, please.

NIKKI-          And listen, as it’s the season of goodwill and all that, if you could recommend or share this podcast, or just introduce someone random to Access All we would really appreciate it, especially as winter can be such a miserable time. So, here’s to the New Year. Merry Christmas everyone. I hope that you’ve not put any pressure on yourselves. Just try and enjoy something. Have a rest if you can.

[Trailer]

PRESENTER- You know when you’re worried about something, but then you talk to your friend who knows more about the subject than you do, and straightaway you start to feel better? That’s what we try and do every day on Newscast.

CLIP-             Now, they’re saying that that would be simple to do, it would give everyone certainty.

PRESENTER- We talk to people who are in the news:

CLIP-             You were chasing me round with a plate of cheese.

PRESENTER- We talk to people who know what’s going on in the news:

CLIP-             At least I didn’t get up and slap anybody.

PRESENTER- We talk to people who understand what the news means:

CLIP-             I think that he’s decided he’s going to listen, and then he might just intervene.

PRESENTER- And we talk to the best BBC journalists, asking the most important questions:

CHRIS-          What’s wrong with chinos? You don’t want them, people to start wearing chinos?

CLIP-             Don’t start me, Chris.

PRESENTER- That’s Newscast from BBC News, the podcast that knows a lot of people who know a lot about the news.

CLIP-             And I was like, go on Kate, put some more welly into it!

CLIP-             Listen to Newscast every day on BBC Sounds.

CLIP-             I’m glad I asked that.

CLIP-             I’m very glad that you asked that!