When Access All took over Newscast

 

17th February 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All- Newscast

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

 

 

NIKKI-           Hi, it’s Nikki and Emma here.

EMMA-         Hello.

NIKKI-           Now, just a quick note to say they let us loose on Newscast today – can you believe it? – so the podcast may sound a little bit different to usual. But fingers crossed it’s just as fun.

EMMA-         Enjoy the show.

NIKKI-           Hello everyone, it’s Nikki Fox here. Now, you might have seen me on the news presenting disability stories, or covering consumer issues on Watchdog on the telly, or you might have even heard me hosting another BBC podcast called Access All, which I co-host with the beautiful Emma Tracey.

EMMA-         Yeah, that’s our weekly podcast about wellbeing, mental health and disabled people. But today we’re filling in for Adam, stepping into his very big shoes, and we’ve been listening to all the lovely messages and reading all the lovely messages that you Newscasters have been sending us, getting to know our audience let’s say.

NIKKI-           [Singing] Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.

Anyway, now there’s one message that I thought we might be able to help with potentially, I don’t know, but it’s a good one for us. Disability related, Ems. Adam was talking about ordnance surveys, so they’re potentially going to update the symbols on their maps. Normally like the symbols that they have at the moment, churches, battlefields, it’s all very kind of 1806, they’re going to update them with cafés, bike shops and all that stuff. But our Newscaster, Anna, has been in touch and she says, ‘I’m a wheelchair user, I’d like the new ordnance survey symbols to show if a boundary crossing is accessible or not. I can plan a route, but if there is a stile my wheelchair can’t do it’.

EMMA-         Right okay, so there needs to be a little stile symbol so that you can take a different route?

NIKKI-           Yeah. But more than that though, Ems, when I was reading this story I thought, well why not – I hate this expression, kill two birds with one stone, it’s awful isn’t it, yet I say it a lot – but why not just use that as a way of pointing out where things are accessible, like a giant ordnance map that has accessibility details on it?

EMMA-         Well, I think it would be useful for more than disabled people. It would be useful for people with buggies, it would be useful for older people. To be very honest with you, Nicola, maps mean very little…

NIKKI-           Ooh, Nicola.

EMMA-         I know, when I call you Nicola you know I’m serious. Maps mean very little to me. The first time I ever used maps was when people started using them on their phone and I could get turn by turn directions; because I’m blind.

NIKKI-           I was just going to say, have you told the audience that you’re blind yet?

EMMA-         Yeah, getting to know the audience, they need to get to know me. I’m blind and I cannot read a map. And just to put it into context I do read braille, and there are braille maps of maybe a building or a little part of a street, but to put it into context one novel in print is about at least six braille volumes. And also I can’t really understand flat illustrations of things. So, I really, really, really would struggle with a big roll-out ordnance survey map.

NIKKI-           Well, since I’ve fallen in love with my boyfriend, who is a gardener, I’m now an outdoorsy type person.

EMMA-         Right, so we need those stile symbols?

NIKKI-           Yeah, I could do with a few accessible stiles pointing out to me maybe some nice walks where I won’t get beached.

EMMA-         Beached?

NIKKI-           Yeah, you know when you get stuck on some giant hill and you’re sort of…

EMMA-         I think we’re a bit stuck on this subject to be honest. Let’s ramble on with this star-studded episode of Newscast.

MUSIC-         Theme music.

NIKKI-           Hello, it’s Nikki in the studio.

EMMA-         And it’s Emma also in the studio.

NIKKI-           Now, in a bit we’re going to be talking to someone who to me will always be Harry Moon from Frasier, my favourite ever sitcom. To you he’s probably Logan Roy from Succession, but I stopped watching that after episode one, I need to go back to it. It’s the actor Brian Cox, he’s going to be joining us later.

EMMA-         He’s also an SNP member so we’re going to talk to him about politics too. And now, while we’re on the subject of politics, Adam goes on a day off and there might be some developments in one of his favourite subjects, the Northern Ireland Protocol.

NIKKI-           With us is the BBC’s Ireland correspondent, Chris Page, who has been following the talks in Belfast and is joining us now. Hello Chris.

CHRIS-          Hi there.

NIKKI-           Okay, so we know it’s complex. Just give us a rundown of what the Northern Ireland Protocol is.

CHRIS-          Truth be told, Nikki, it is confusing. Having been speaking about it myself for two years, I still find it a tad that way sometimes.

NIKKI-           I’m glad it’s not just me.

CHRIS-          But I’ll do my very best.

NIKKI-           Thank you.

CHRIS-          The Northern Ireland Protocol was an arrangement that was agreed between Boris Johnson’s government and the Union European in order to, as Boris Johnson put it, get Brexit done. So, you may well remember during the Brexit negotiations one of the big issues was how to avoid checkpoints on the land border with the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland, as part of the UK, was going to be outside the European Union, the Republic of Ireland was going to remain inside the European Union, so with the UK following one set of trading rules and the Republic of Ireland the other how did you avoid having to check goods whenever they were crossing that land border. And it was thought that if there were any new checkpoints on the land border that could be a threat to the peace process in Northern Ireland, given that during the long conflict we had here from the late 1960s to the late 1990s  a lot of the violence was concentrated around the border area.

                       So, the Northern Ireland Protocol is an arrangement whereby the trade border isn’t on the land border but it is between the rest of the UK and Northern Ireland. So, instead of goods being checked as they cross the land border they are now checked when they come from England, Scotland or Wales to ports in Northern Ireland. To Unionists that means it’s a border, they say, within their own country, within the United Kingdom, and therefore it’s unacceptable.

NIKKI-           That was beautifully explained.

EMMA-         But I actually grew up less than half an hour from the border with Northern Ireland, I’m from Cavan, so just in the Republic of Ireland side. And I remember us being really, really nervous about being caught in that crossfire any time we needed to go across the border. It was a very big deal for people in the Republic of Ireland and people in Northern Ireland, it was a very big deal and a very big deal that it wouldn’t happen this time. So, Rishi Sunak’s been in Belfast having chats with Stormont leaders, parties leaders and the foreign secretary, James Cleverly has been having a conversation with the European Commission vice president. Do you know anything about the substance of these talks?

CHRIS-          Yeah, there’s not a deal yet. But that flurry of activity that you’ve just talked about there is suggesting that a deal is at the very least moving closer. So, these negotiations about the protocol have been going on in some shape or form between the UK and the EU since 2021. From Unionists’ point of view they say, well fair enough, there’s no border on the land frontier between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, so why should there then be a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK? They will feel they came worse off in the whole Brexit process, they’ll say. Just the same way as a border was perhaps a much bigger deal for Irish Nationalists, those who ultimately want North Ireland to become part of the Republic of Ireland, well they look at it exactly the same way as regards the separation between Northern Ireland the Great Britain. So, the biggest Unionist party in the devolved assembly at Stormont, the Democratic Unionist Party, they have forbidden, if you like, a power sharing devolved government from being formed at Stormont for the best part of a year now. So, the idea is that there’ll be a deal at some stage between the UK and the EU, and Rishi Sunak hopes that will pave the way for the DUP to lift its veto, say it’s happy with the border arrangements, and therefore it will return to a power sharing allowing Northern Ireland to have a government again.

                       As with everything in Northern Ireland politics though, it’s certainly not quite that simple. The bottom line for the DUP on the basis of what they told Rishi Sunak today, they don’t want there to be any checks on goods coming here from the rest of the UK anymore. Also they say the way things are set up at the moment EU law, law that is made fundamentally by the European Union, takes priority in Northern Ireland as opposed to laws that are made either here in Belfast or by the parliament in London. So, they say that has to change. That will come down to the role that the EU’s highest court, the European Court of Justice, ultimately has.

                       Potentially the most tricky sticking point in all of this, the vibes we’re getting from the leader of the DUP, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson after his meeting with Rishi Sunak, progress he said was being made; he struck a pretty positive tone there. But he also suggested that significant areas still remain where there was more work that has to be done. So, while there’s been speculation mounting that we could be heading for an announcement on a deal between the UK and the EU perhaps in the early part of next week, even if that does happen it doesn’t look like immediately Northern Ireland is going to get its government back. It doesn’t look like the DUP will be ready, at that stage anyway, to relent, soften its position and allow the Stormont executive, Northern Ireland’s devolved government, to come back.

EMMA-         It’s teatime now on Friday, roughly, where is everybody? Where is James Cleverly? Where is Rishi Sunak? What’s happening?

NIKKI-           Where are they at?

EMMA-         What are they doing?

CHRIS-          Well, James Cleverly had lunch today in Brussels with Maroš Šefčovič. Now, Mr Šefčovič is the vice president of the European Commission. He and Mr Cleverly have been the two main people carrying out these negotiations between the UK and the EU. So, straight after they had lunch they both sent out tweets, and the tweets were kind of mirror images of themselves you could say, talking about hard work continues, intensive work continues. So, again the message from them is a deal is coming closer but it’s not quite done yet. Rishi Sunak over the weekend will be heading to Munich to the Security Conference happening there. He will meet, amongst other European leaders, the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, so that could be an opportunity for him to talk with her about what he’s heard from the Northern Ireland parties today, perhaps finalise the language around any deal, if we are that close, or assess if a deal is possible at all. So, with that timeframe there’s still some expectation that perhaps we could be heading towards an announcement early next week.

                       But all sides, and I have to say this has happened more and more over the course of today, all sides stressing that there is still a way to go. So, nobody quite counting their chickens at the moment. The aim perhaps is to get a deal done as soon as possible. But certainly the message the Prime Minister will have got from Unionists in Northern Ireland today is that it’s important to get the right deal, and the timing of it isn’t so important.

EMMA-         Thank you very much for explaining it to us and making it a little bit more understandable.

NIKKI-           Yeah, beautifully explained there, Chris, thank you.

CHRIS-          Okay. Goodbye. Have a good weekend.

EMMA-         There’s been loads of NHS news this week, hasn’t there, Nikki?

NIKKI-           Yeah, we know there are going to be more strikes. Nurses in England announced their plan to strike again in the biggest walkout of the pay dispute so far. And we also found out that half of A&E patients in the country have had to wait more than four hours to be seen this winter.

EMMA-         And I wanted to talk about your NHS story as well, Nikki, because that’s sort of related to that A&E story, isn’t it?

NIKKI-           Yeah, we were looking at this story, but specifically on the impact of disabled people and their families.

EMMA-         Let’s speak about all of this a bit more with Baron Victor Adebowale. He’s the chair of the NHS Confederation, which is a membership group representing health leaders. Hi Victor.

NIKKI-           Victor, it’s so lovely to have you in. Thank you so much.

VICTOR-       It’s great to be here.

NIKKI-           Thanks Victor. Let’s start with the strikes, because obviously that is the issue that people are looking ahead to, that 48-hour strike from 1st March. And many are thinking how is the health system going to cope.

VICTOR-       Well, it will cope, because it does. My colleagues in the NHS they do cope. They coped during the pandemic; they’ll cope during the strikes. But coping isn’t what they want to do. They want to be providing excellent healthcare to everybody. They’re working incredibly hard. So, we’ve written to the Prime Minister and we said look, you need to settle the strike. I’m hoping it won’t happen because basically ministers need to sit down and sort out the wages, they need to sit down and talk about the things that need to be talked about in order to end the strike. And only they can do it, no one else can.

EMMA-         And do you think strikes are less disruptive now that the NHS has had some practice at contingency planning?

VICTOR-       I mean, to be honest that’s what worries me most. What we can’t have is a normative sort of experience of the NHS on strike, because that’s not normal. The fact of the matter is I’ve yet to meet a nurse or paramedic or anyone else who wants to go on strike. They’re not striking for a laugh, and they’re certainly not striking because it’s easy for them. My members, and certainly frontline workers, I’ve met people in tears. It’s a really, really tough decision, so they’re not making it lightly, that’s the first thing to say.

                       And the second thing to say is we don’t want this to become a normative experience. It’s not good for frontline workers to be on strike, because you get a less than optimal service; that’s what a strike is all about. It’s not just inconvenient, it’s actually quite dangerous.

NIKKI-           We’ve got a clip here actually, Victor, from Lord Bethell, former Conservative health minister, who criticised Pat Cullen, head of the RCN when he was on the Today programme this morning. So, we’ll just have a quick listen.

[CLIP]

BETHELL-    Of course these strikes are going to be dangerous to patients, of course they’re going to add significant risks. We’re going to see excess mortalities and undiagnosed disease. A huge hit on our population from the slowdown of the NHS that these strikes have caused. It is going to hit the NHS really hard. There’s an innovation paralysis. Important programmes around prevention, about capital investment are being slowed down because of this. We’re going to see a long tale in terms of undiagnosed disease and complications. Pat Cullen does need to face up to that responsibility. And these strikes do absolutely nothing to contribute to the recruitment of, as she puts it, young bright students.

NIKKI-           Does he have a point?

VICTOR-       Well, I mean he has a point. But I’m across a bench peer, I’m not a member of a political party, I’m the Chairman of the NHS Confederation, I reflect the views of my members. I don’t work for the government. Lord Bethell is a member of a political party that supports the government’s position. Where I would agree with him is that strike action by definition is both inconvenient, and when it happens in the NHS is risky. Where I think we might have a debate is at the end of the day there has to be a negotiation. We have to sit round the table and sort this out. And that’s what I’m saying has to happen. And the only people that can do that, the people on strike can’t negotiate with themselves, that’s just logic, they have to negotiate with someone. And the people who are in charge who own the means of production, who have the purse strings, the chequebook, whatever you want to call it, are the government.

EMMA-         But he’s saying strikes aren’t the answer, isn’t he really?

VICTOR-       I’d expect him to say little else. That’s the government’s position, and he’s a member of the government’s party, so that’s not surprising. I’m not arguing, I’m not in favour of strike action; I’m just pointing out that the strikes are happening.

NIKKI-           Could you give me an insight into what it’s actually like. What do staff want and how difficult is it getting what they want?

VICTOR-       Well, it’s obviously very difficult, which is why they’re striking. But you look at the NHS and social care system you’ve got 130,000 vacancies. You will see people who experience nurses under a great deal of pressure, looking after a huge number of patients, their complaints are when I’ve spoken to them, I’ve visited hospitals, they’re not able to take breaks. The NHS runs on discretionary effort. Nobody joins the NHS to get rich. A lot of the things that nurses do they do outside their job description, as it were. So, people are working way beyond their shifts. They’re not able to know when they’re going to go home; they’re working till the job gets done. And that goes for paramedics as well. So, there’s a lot of discretionary effort. Because there’s a staff shortage people are doing things way above and beyond what they have to do and what they should be doing, and they are exhausted.

NIKKI-           It seems to be such a difficult thing to actually make happen.

VICTOR-       Well, yes. I do feel for the jobs that ministers have to do. It’s not easy being the Health Secretary. There are lots of competing priorities and lots of issues around pay and around the economics of that. But the point is at the end of the day you have to negotiate. And a negotiation usually ends in both parties walking away feeling a bit miserable because they don’t get what you want. That’s what a negotiation is.

EMMA-         It’s not just the strikes that have been having an impact on disabled people. You’ve been looking, Nikki, at some of the other NHS pressures that have been having an effect, haven’t you?

NIKKI-           Yeah. I recently met, Victor, two people: one wonderful woman called Anjan who had cerebral palsy. And part of the condition that she has with her tummy meant she has a catheter. That gets blocked an awful lot. Her local services can’t sort that problem for her at home or locally or in the community; she has got to go to A&E. And she spent 45 hours one week, she’s back and forth and back and forth to sort her blocked catheter out. And it was the same with another family I spent a couple of days with, Elise and she’s got a son called Ivan, he’s got a very rare, very complex disability. And with that comes issues with his bowels and low muscle tone, and he gets terribly constipated.

[Clip]

ELISE-           It’s hard to get your head around the idea that a little boy, like a three year old boy is having to go through that amount of pain, those kinds of waits. But it’s happening and Ivan can’t be the only child that’s fallen through the cracks like that, he won’t be.

NIKKI-           For a good over a year now she’s been saying, ‘Can we sort this locally, can someone teach me?’ But because he’s disabled the thought is that he’s too complex, that it has to be done at A&E. And Anjan was told the same, because of her cerebral palsy, too complex, lack of services, has to be done at A&E. So, they’re feeling very much guilty because they don’t want to burden an overstretched emergency department right now with issues that are so simple.

VICTOR-       Well, look, that kind of thing is partly we have a problem with social care, we have a shortage of staff. The Confed’s view, the NHS, my colleagues and I at the Confed know that that could be relieved if we paid people who do social care more than they could actually get at the supermarket across the road. I have literally sat in social care services and watched people who used to work for the social care go and work for Lidl’s because they get paid more. And you can’t blame people for doing that because of inflation and costs and everything else. So, we do have a problem.

                       There are some things that we could be doing and are happening in some places to help families like the one that you’ve mentioned, like providing specialist housing, providing more community services so that people get the support they need. But the problem is it’s a bit patchy, and that’s a problem. We can’t have a postcode lottery for this stuff. It’s either happening everywhere or it’s painfully not happening when you need it most for some of the people who need it.

NIKKI-           When I was speaking to the people that I met – and it did move me, it always does when you do a story like that, the position that they’re in, and Elise had so much going on in her life and had to quit her job and all these things that make life a lot more difficult when you do have a disability yourself.

VICTOR-       Agreed.

NIKKI-           Or you’ve got a disabled child or whatever – but they all felt kind of aware that they were using a system that they shouldn’t really have to use. And they felt guilty about that.

VICTOR-       I can speak for myself, first of all reading those stories really got to me. And secondly, they shouldn’t feel guilty.

NIKKI-           No.

VICTOR-       Guilt is the last thing they should feel. They deserve to use these services. They are patients and they are citizens and they deserve to. They should not feel guilty. I can tell you now my colleagues in the NHS want them to use the services, they want to provide the care. Guilt is something it’s easy for me to say they shouldn’t feel, but I hope if they’re listening to this they take that to heart. They should not feel guilty. Please use the services. They are there for you. And my colleagues want you to use them. That’s what they do, that’s why they do their job, they feel passionately about it and so do I. So, use the services please.

NIKKI-           Another thing, just very quickly, a doctor told me which I found quite interesting as well, hearing it from him I think, he was from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, Dr Adrian Boyle.

VICTOR-       I know Adrian.

NIKKI-           He was saying about that a total redesign of hospitals, emergency settings, A&E whatever, the whole hospital potentially, needs to happen.

VICTOR-       Well, I think there’s an argument. It’s difficult to talk about reform when we’re in the middle of a… But there are some things that are happening that are really powerful. So, for instance virtual wards: is it possible to manage people who have disabilities in the community in a way that means they don’t have to be in and out of A&E because they’re in constant contact with the hospital through they’ve got cameras, they have monitors, they have all the things that you would have in a hospital but it’s in their own home. And when they’re in crisis or they need help or just worried they can talk to someone, someone is monitoring all their bodily functions, and it means that they can receive the care and support so they don’t need to be in hospital. And that’s linked to community services. So, more of those sorts of virtual wards have already been planned. They will get rolled out. My members are very keen on developing them. But again, we need to resolve the strike; we need to get people focused on those sorts of things.

NIKKI-           It’s been a pleasure having you on, Victor.

VICTOR-       It’s been a pleasure being here. I’m really glad that we’re talking about this stuff.

NIKKI-           I thoroughly enjoyed that.

VICTOR-       And thank you for raising these issues. Keep raising them.

NIKKI-           Thank you Victor.

VICTOR-       No problem.

EMMA-         So, we knew we were presenting Newscast later in the week when Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon announced her resignation. And we thought who better to talk about all of this with than Scottish actor Brian Cox.

NIKKI-           Hi Brian.

BRIAN-         Hello.

NIKKI-           Now, I know you rated Nicola Sturgeon a lot, didn’t you Brian, you were a fan. What is your reaction to her stepping down?

BRIAN-         Well, I think it’s tragic in one sense, but I think it’s completely understandable. She’s had a lot of unnecessary abuse quite frankly, more than most would suffer, particularly from the Conservative party for one thing, and also from people in Scotland. There’s always the debate about the validity of one person over another. And I think that it’s been very tough for her, and also the fact that it’s very hard to establish the definite need for Scottish independence, and that’s been really difficult.

NIKKI-           Are you concerned about the future of the SNP now that she’s gone?

BRIAN-         No, because I think there’s a lot of great people there, a lot of potential people. There’s John Swinney, there’s Angus Robertson, there’s Ruth Fox, there’s a whole bunch of people there who are pretty formidable. So, I think whoever her successor is will be absolutely up to the mark. And I think that’s because the party is a very healthy party in that way.

EMMA-         The leader will be announced on 27th March. You’ve mentioned a couple of names there. John Swinney has ruled himself out. Who would you like to be the next in succession, Brian?

BRIAN-         The person I have a lot of respect for is Angus Robertson. He’s the Culture Secretary at the moment, but he has a scope which is quite interesting. He’s a very strong European and has lots of connections because his mother was German. So, there’s a very strong European connection for Angus. But also he has a total grasp of the situation, so I think he would make a great leader quite frankly.

EMMA-         And do you think the European connection, like looking really far ahead, you could get Scotland through independence and then look at getting them back in the EU? Is that something long term?

BRIAN-         Yes, I think so. We voted 62%. I mean, this is the problem that Scotland has had is that we’re so like Blanche Dubois in A Street Car Named Desire, we’re always depending on the kindness of strangers; decisions are made on our behalf that we are not necessarily in charge of. And one of the great decisions was the fact that 62% said let’s stay in the European Community, and we were defeated by the rest of the United Kingdom.

NIKKI-           Can you be confident though, Brian, that the Scottish people would vote for independence? Because the polling does suggest otherwise.

BRIAN-         I think there is the appetite for it. These things go in sloughs. It’s just that people have to be reminded about what kinds of constraints we’ve been under consistently since really many, many years, well before Thatcher.

EMMA-         You don’t live in Scotland, Brian, do you? What would make you move back?

BRIAN-         I spend a lot of my time in Scotland, a lot of time in Scotland. I spend more time than people know in Scotland. In fact I visit Scotland on a regular basis.

EMMA-         Would you move back full time?

BRIAN-         I eventually think I would like to move back to Scotland. But I’m only going to move back to Scotland when it’s independent.

EMMA-         Okay.

NIKKI-           Aha, that’s when he’s going to move back to Scotland. I love Glasgow; Glasgow’s my favourite.

EMMA-         Well, I’m in Fife, and I know Dundee a little bit, which is where you grew up, isn’t it, and it’s a really lovely place.

BRIAN-         Yeah, great people.

NIKKI-           Away from politics now, Brian, I am obsessed with ‘90s action movies. And Bruce Willis will always be one of the finest ‘90s action movie stars of his time. Now, you both acted in the film Red. I absolutely adore Red and Red 2. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, Emma, but they’re amazing movies. I wondered if you’d seen the news about his recent diagnosis.

BRIAN-         Yeah.

NIKKI-           It’s sad, isn’t it?

BRIAN-         It’s very sad. He was very sweet too. We got on incredibly well he and I when we worked together on Red 1. It’s a very sad thing to hear about Bruce. It’s a form of temporal…I can’t remember exactly what it is, but he has massive aphasia. Apparently he can’t speak anymore, which is terrible.

NIKKI-           It’s frontotemporal dementia.

BRIAN-         It’s really awful because he was funny, he was witty, he was a great performer. He did Die Hard.

NIKKI-           It’s sad as well. It’s such a cruel disease, and for someone that was a communicator as well it’s very difficult. But that’s lovely to think you had such nice memories of acting together.

BRIAN-         He was lovely. He is lovely, he’s still there, he’s a lovely man.

EMMA-         Are you going to BAFTA this weekend, Brian?

BRIAN-         Yes, I’m actually presenting a BAFTA this weekend.

EMMA-         What would you like to see win?

BRIAN-         I don’t know really. I watched them and they’re great, a great means for the community to come together. But they have to be treated with a sense of realising that this too will pass. Next week there’ll be another bunch of people coming along, and that’s the way it is, and it’s great. I haven’t got any particular. Because I’ve been working so hard I don’t get to see anything. In fact I’m a member of the Academy and they keep saying, ‘Why aren’t you voting?’ And I keep saying, ‘Well, I haven’t seen anything because I haven’t had time to see anything’.

EMMA-         Yeah, I’ve got small kids, Brian, I feel like that; I don’t get to see anything. I keep putting Elvis up to watch every Saturday night and then something happens and I end up going to bed. So, there you go. We need to just ask though, you’ve been filming all week, can you tell us what’s coming up or have you got any little titbits of what’s coming in the next season of Succession?

BRIAN-         I can’t tell you a single thing because I’m sworn, I’ve signed NDAs up to the neck of what we can talk about and what we can’t talk about. And I can’t actually talk about Succession.

EMMA-         Oh, thank you so much, Brian.

NIKKI-           It’s been such, such a pleasure.

BRIAN-         Bye bye.

NIKKI-           I really enjoyed that interview, Emma.

EMMA-         He seems like a lovely man.

NIKKI-           Yeah, he was. Now, normal service will resume on Newscast because Adam is back on Monday. But if you like me and Em tune into Access All, if you fancy it. It’s also on BBC Sounds.

EMMA-         Or wherever you get your podcasts from.

NIKKI-           Okay, thank you for listening.

EMMA-         Bye.

CLIP-             Newscast from the BBC.

ADAM-          Thank you so much for making it to the end of Newscast. You clearly ooze stamina. Can I gently encourage you to subscribe to us on BBC Sounds? Tell everyone you know. And don’t forget, you can email us any time newscast@bbc.co.uk. Or, if you want, send us a WhatsApp on 0330 123 9480. Be assured the team listens to every single message. Bye.

[Trailer]

CLIP-             ‘I could feel our house shaking.’ ‘That was one of the scariest battles.’ ‘I’m traumatised. I’m completely destroyed.’

VICTORIA-   Hello, I’m Victoria Derbyshire, one of the hosts of Ukrainecast. We actually put out the first episode of Ukrainecast on the very first day of the war when Russia invaded Ukraine.

CLIP-             This is a European country and it’s at war. It’s extraordinary.

VICTORIA-   So much has happened since then, and all the way through we’ve been trying to tell people’s stories, what’s really happening on the ground in Ukraine.

CLIP-             My elder daughter was lying on the ground. She had been dead.

VICTORIA-   And we’ll be here for you, making sense of it all for as long as we need to be.

CLIP-             ‘People were being snatched and disappearing.’ ‘People took to the streets even after the Ukrainian forces had gone.’

VICTORIA-   Ukrainecast is made by the same BBC News team that makes this podcast.

CLIP-             This is it, this is the war of the direst evil against all of humanity.

VICTORIA-   Listen to Ukrainecast on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Just search for Ukrainecast on BBC Sounds.