The disabled woman who hired a sex worker

27th April 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 50

 

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

 

NIKKI-           Have I told you who I’m sleeping with at the moment, Ems?

EMMA-         Dave the gardener, I’m hoping. Or your new blow up legs maybe?

NIKKI-           No. The nozen.

EMMA-         The nozen?

NIKKI-           It’s a small little device that I shove up my nose. It’s not that exciting really. I was lying in bed the other night thinking, ‘Wow, when did it get to this point?’ when just before bed I’ve taken off my make-up, got my hair all ready, then I have to insert two invisible braces, one for the top, one for the bottom teeth, and then I have to stick this contraption up my nose to widen my nostrils.

EMMA-         To widen your nostrils. So, this is the need he meets for you. Why is he a he?

NIKKI-           This is the what, what, what?

EMMA-         The need he meets. This is how he meets your needs, nozen.

NIKKI-           Ah, the noz-, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s really, really hard to describe. It’s quite small, but basically it has two little things that come up each nostril and it pulls your nostrils apart once it’s up there. You bend it to get it in, and then when you release and it’s in the nostrils, it will expand out. So basically it just-

EMMA-         Sort of like a menstrual cup.

NIKKI-           [Laughs] I’ve never used one of those. They are far too logistically tricky for me to use one of those.

EMMA-         You see, this is a disability issue, isn’t it?

NIKKI-           It is. I’m telling you. The nozen I could do on my own, unlike the menstrual cup.

EMMA-         It actually does fulfil a need, it’s not a – I love this term – it’s not a disability dongle?

NIKKI-           No. And I’ve not just done it for bants either, it’s just I’ve got sleep apnoea, Ems, and I snore like a wild animal, and it is getting a little bit worse as time goes on.

EMMA-         It’s a tough one.

NIKKI-           But what a catch I am, Ems, eh?

MUSIC-         Theme music

NIKKI-           It’s Access All, the BBC’s disability and mental health podcast. Now this is a very exciting one for us because it’s our one year anniversary. [Party blower] One whole year of programmes from us. You’re welcome. I’m Nikki Fox, and I’m in London.

EMMA-         And I’m Emma Tracey, in Edinburgh.

NIKKI-           Now I should be clear, this isn’t a special birthday edition or anything, we have no extra budget. We’re not even going to the pub later, Emma.

EMMA-         Awh. We are, however, interviewing a disabled woman who wanted to lose her virginity so paid a man to help her do it.

NIKKI-           Yeah. For the first time, we can reveal that disabled women also like a bit of rumpy-pumpy. Melanie and Chayse will join us soon to tell their story.

EMMA-         Subscribe to Access All on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts, and if you think your friends would like what we do, please tell them about us.

NIKKI-           This next item, we are going to be talking about sex and sex workers, and we’re going to have a really frank, honest chat, which might be a little bit rudey-dudey so if you’ve got small kids you might just want to send them out the room.

                       Melanie Hawkes accepted that her dream of having a partner one day might never happen. She’s been a wheelchair user since developing an inflammatory spinal cord condition as a toddler, and for Melanie dating never quite worked out. But three months ago Melanie found a male escort called Chayse, who has been helping her explore her sexuality for the very first time. And it is such a pleasure to welcome both Melanie and Chayse to Access All. Hello guys.

MELANIE-    Hello.

CHAYSE-      Hello.

NIKKI-           This is a real treat, a real treat to talk to you both, so much to say but let’s just get cracking on because I need to calm myself down. I’m going to start with you, Melanie. I was reading, Melanie, this kind of all started, didn’t it, from a conversation that you had with your support worker, which led you to doing a bit of online research and coming across this whole kind of world.

MELANIE-    Yeah.

NIKKI-           Tell me more about that.

MELANIE-    I had COVID in December last year for the first time. The COVID didn’t really affect me as much as I thought it would, but I slept kind of upright to minimise my coughing at night and developed a really sore, stiff neck from sleeping in a different position. I was having a bath one night with my support worker, we will call her Tracy because she doesn’t want her real name in the world wide news, and she put me in the bath one night during my week of isolation with COVID and started washing my hair. She had a few extra shampoo bubbles that she massaged into my neck, and that was the first time someone had really touched me intimately like that. When she put me to bed later that night I told her how she made me feel, and she said, “You know there’s sex workers out there who can do this more often?” and I said, “No.” I said, “How do you know there are?” and she said that she used to be one.

NIKKI-           Amazing.

MELANIE-    I’d known this girl crazy for a few years now and she’d never mentioned it before. We’d talked about sex. She’s a polyamorous girl and she has multiple partners, and we’d always talked about sex in the bedroom as she put me to bed and I got to know her sex life, but mine was pretty much nil. It kind of just opened my eyes to the fact that maybe I could experience this. The next day I worked from home and I couldn’t get it out of my head, I just could not stop thinking about it, so I waited until after work and I Googled “male sex workers” and got nothing, until I realised they’re called escorts here, and then up popped a website of independent escorts and Chayse’s smile and his photo caught my eye and kind of went from there.

NIKKI-           How did you feel when you were looking for an escort? Because we hear about it maybe a bit more from the perspective of a man finding an escort or a sex worker or whatever, not so much from women. Did it feel any different being a woman? How would you know? But I’m just interested.

MELANIE-    I think it is more acceptable for a man to see a female and go to a brothel. I was surprised that there was actually male escorts on this website, it was for both male, female and trans escorts, this website. I had a look at a few of the male ones in Perth where I live in WA, Western Australia, but some of them didn’t show their face, and I didn’t want to contact someone who I couldn’t see their face on their website. Chayse listed that he did disabled clients, and I really liked his smile, and his rates were more reasonable than some of the others, which kind of shocked me how expensive it is.

That night I told Tracy what I’d done and she so pleased and proud of me that I’d taken that step and looked in. For the whole weekend I couldn’t get it out of my head. Then the Monday afternoon I found myself with a few extra minutes to kill and I looked Chayse up again and sent him an email. He called me within like 10 or 15 minutes and we chatted on the phone and I asked my million questions and told him I’d think about it. But the more I thought about it, the more I said I’d have to try it.

EMMA-         What were the million questions? I’m interested.

MELANIE-    Oh, what were they, Chayse? Have you used the hoist before was one of my questions. How hard can it be, it’s just up and down, was his answer! My place or his? I asked if he had wheelchair access and he said yes.

NIKKI-           Logistics.

MELANIE-    My first session was at Chayse’s house, and I didn’t quite get the happy ending that I was after but it wasn’t because of lack of trying. Chayse went to all sorts of lengths to try, but it didn’t work out my end. But we got on really well.

CHAYSE-      What didn’t work out on your end, Melanie? [Laughs]

MELANIE-    I’m not going to say! I didn’t get my happy ending.

CHAYSE-      Yeah, I think the big ‘O’ is very situational in this kind of field, especially when you haven’t had one for yourself. This is what a lot of people don’t understand is that it takes time to find what you enjoy.

EMMA-         You mean orgasm?

CHAYSE-      Yeah.

MELANIE-    Yes.

CHAYSE-      I wouldn’t encourage her to come here the first time expecting to have the big ‘O’, because having those kind of sexspectations on a first meeting is quite impossible, and also a bad thing to have on your mind.

MELANIE-    It was my first time I’d been naked in front of a man.

CHAYSE-      Your situation is a bit different, and unfortunately Melanie’s never had one. You’ve got to figure out what is going to work for her so she can make it easier in the future.

NIKKI-           Melanie, I wanted to come to you as well because I know you’re very open and honest so I don’t think you’ll mind me asking. I’m physically disabled as well and I was single for a very long time, 150 years really, Melanie, but I’d had sex before. No-one needs to hear this. I’d had sex before but it had been quite a long time, and then I met my partner and everything. But for me, when we got to that stage, it was the physical things that I was most hung up about. It was am I going to be able to get into the right position? Is this going to absolutely whack me out? Just those kind of things really played on my mind beforehand. When you’re with someone you love, or you’re with someone like Chayse who is a total professional, you know pretty quick you don’t have to worry. But did those things play on your mind beforehand?

MELANIE-    Yeah. Well, that’s the whole reason I booked Chayse was to explore what works and what doesn’t, what my body’s capable of and what it’s not, what I like and what I don’t like. I didn’t want to get into bed with or go home with a guy from a bar and find out these things in an awkward vulnerable unsafe manner. I knew by booking Chayse and paying for the service that I would be in control, and we would work together to explore all these different things in the bedroom.

NIKKI-           And you guys must have such a good relationship. I guess it’s a conversation, isn’t it, as well as-?

MELANIE-    Yeah.

NIKKI-           That must be probably one of the most important parts.

MELANIE-    Although I do like the spontaneity and the surprises that come up with each other.

EMMA-         What did you learn about your own body, the positions and how you move?

MELANIE-    I know that my legs can be unpredictable and fling off the bed at any stage. [Laughs] That kind of hurts.

NIKKI-           They go up, then the go down. I’m with you there, Melanie.

MELANIE-    Yeah. So now I’ve worked out that they need to be fastened to the bed beforehand, and then there’s no worry about them flinging off the bed at any moment. I had to see my physio a few times after each session because we got into a bit of trouble with my legs going all sorts of places.

NIKKI-           You know what you’re doing, Melanie.

MELANIE-    [Laughs] Now I do. After seven sessions now I know what I’m doing, yeah.

NIKKI-           What do your mates and family think about this?

MELANIE-    They’re really happy for me. They see how happy it’s made me. Whenever I have a session with Chayse I’m always looking forward to it and really excited and can’t wipe the smile off my face afterwards.

CHAYSE-      Awh.

MELANIE-    Yeah, it’s been really great.

NIKKI-           Awh. How does that make you feel, Chayse? Is that why you do it?

CHAYSE-      It’s definitely not why I do it, but it’s a reason to why I do it. I’m naturally a giving kind of person, which I think is a really important thing, because if you’re not a naturally giving person people can feel that energy. That’s the important thing. And I think who doesn’t want to help people, and help people explore different things and better other people’s lives? I have my own form of self-care and self-therapy that we all need, and why I can’t be there for other people that need that and deserve and want to feel beautiful?

EMMA-         Melanie, it’s not cheap though, is it?

MELANIE-    No, not at all. Especially when I wanted longer services. I went from two hours the first one, to three hours, and then I jumped to five hours. And then what did we have, eight hours?

CHAYSE-      Yeah.

NIKKI-           You had a couple of nights together?

MELANIE-    Our last session was 48 hours together.

EMMA-         Wow! What prices are we talking about? What’s the ball park?

CHAYSE-      It’s in the thousands. But what a lot of people don’t understand is when you’re seeing someone for 48 hours, as rewarding as it can be, you’re not doing anything else you want to do in your life for those two days. Every moment, every action, is being there for them and making that experience about them. As much as I love doing it, it does take a lot of preparation to do, a lot of spending time on myself afterwards, which I think is important, so that I can give that amount of time to someone.

EMMA-         It’s like a week’s work, isn’t it? And it’s Australian dollars we’re talking about here when you say thousands.

CHAYSE-      Yeah.

MELANIE-    What price do you put on that? My confidence is growing heaps. I’m happier than I’ve ever been. You can’t put a price on that lifechanging experience.

NIKKI-           I love that, Melanie. Has it also made you think differently about your future, maybe settling down with someone, finding the right fella?

MELANIE-    Definitely. I never thought I would go on dating apps and talk to men online, and now I’m doing it pretty much daily. I’ve got a date tomorrow and on Monday.

NIKKI-           Stop it! You’re on two dates in a couple of days?

MELANIE-    Yeah. Two different guys. Yeah, got to try it.

CHAYSE-      That’s one thing me and Melanie have been working on from the start is it’s not just a service just for right now, it’s a service that we’re building together to be able to get her out there and dating and having that kind of confidence. I had a meeting with a person that does coaching for dating and stuff so I can work with clients and a dating coach together in creating a plan for them for the future with dating success and sexual confidence. I think it’s something a lot of people haven’t seen or know that’s out there, and I think that’s important as well.

NIKKI-           That’s great, that accommodation, because life is all about the confidence, isn’t it?

CHAYSE-      What do you do if you’re married for 25 years and your partner passes away, and you don’t know the tango of dating nowadays and you haven’t been intimate with anyone in 30 years besides your partner? Those are real challenges, and this is a kind of service that can help people gain that confidence again within their own self and their body and to move past their partner, and to work with a coach for dating as well to be able to know the ins and outs on how people go about dating more nowadays. Because there is an intergenerational change between what dating was like 30 years ago and there is now.

NIKKI-           Yeah. And Chayse, I was just wondering what the laws are like in Australia when it comes to this kind of work?

CHAYSE-      I don’t know all the technical laws, I’m not a lawyer. But I did hear recently that they were decriminalising it in other states like Northern Territory, Victoria and Queensland, they’re announcing that. But no decrim in WA. It is legal for private independent sex workers, but you can’t hire staff, security, receptionists. There’s a lot of like grey areas when it comes to support from police against crimes against sex workers by their clients. So we really want to push full decriminalisation of it, which will bring more resources to people in this industry that need it.

NIKKI-           Yeah. And it’s a legit business for you, isn’t it? This is your business. I presume you do your returns and all your stuff that you have to do, taxes. She says very knowledgeably.

CHAYSE-      Yeah.

MELANIE-    And Chayse is a very good businessman. I’ve tried contacting other male escorts and they just don’t get back to me like Chayse does. He’s a very good businessman.

EMMA-         You’re good at your admin, Chayse.

MELANIE-    He’s also very good at his job. But also, if he hadn’t have called me within that first 15 minutes of my first email, I might have changed my mind and got cold feet.

NIKKI-           Ah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

MELANIE-    Chayse was right onto it and he was very convincing to come for that first session. It’s hard not to fall in love with Chayse.

EMMA-         Have either of you ever felt like you were doing something wrong?

CHAYSE-      No.

MELANIE-    I do feel a bit funny seeing Chayse so many times, like it’s hard not to fall in love with Chayse and what he does for me. But I have to remind myself that it is a professional relationship, even though we’re very romantic together. He was my first. He’s always going to be my first.

EMMA-         You’ll always remember your first.

MELANIE-    We have such a great communication and relationship now that I just kind of went, ‘You know what, I’m just going to keep seeing Chayse.’  And no-one else has got back to me so I’m going to keep seeing Chayse.

NIKKI-           Another thing I was thinking as well, Melanie, I think people with all kinds of disabilities would feel this at some point, but for me particularly as someone with a physical disability there’s that thing about power and about sometimes you can feel, well I can feel a little helpless in certain situations just because I can’t physically do something. But when you’re looking at sex and stuff and there’s power games sometimes at play and all of that kind of stuff, did any of that worry you that you were kind of having to let go really and put all your trust in somebody?

MELANIE-    It was a huge step the first time, I have to admit, just going and putting myself out there and trust seeing this man that I had just walked through the door for. We’d talked on the phone and we’d FaceTimed each other so I knew kind of who he was and where he was set up. But when I got out of my chair and my support worker left, it was just the two of us and I had no idea what I was in for. Two hours later we were best of buddies and we knew each other quite well. But yeah, it was that first step. I knew I was out of my depth with sexual knowledge, and I felt completely overwhelmed with the sexpert that was standing in front of me. But then I’m an expert with disability and Chayse had no idea about some things. We end up laughing at each other’s ignorance and naivety, and completely ended up level-headed kind of thing by the end of it, and that meant a lot to me to make me feel more comfortable.

CHAYSE-      Anyone that is having sex for the first time, or anyone that is being intimate, there’s always a sense of vulnerabilities. Melanie’s got a much higher vulnerability in that sense because the lack of being able to move or fight back. That’s why I take every act I can to create a safe, welcoming space where she’s in control. That’s why we’ve done the phone calls, all that kind of stuff, so that I can create that space where she can relax and receive and communicate and have that sense of control. But at the end of the day, nothing’s ever going to happen if you don’t have a sense of vulnerability, if you don’t trust your gut. I applaud her for putting herself in that extreme vulnerability state, but she’s gained so much from it, and that’s a great thing.

NIKKI-           How often do you reckon you guys are going to carry on seeing each other? I guess it’s more a question for you, Melanie.

MELANIE-    My plan was that 48 hour session would be the last because I’d learnt pretty much everything. But then I’ve had some very disappointing and frustration with the dating apps that I’ve had,  men that just don’t get back to me, or say they’re going to meet me and then they don’t turn up. I was so disappointed and annoyed with it the other day that I contacted Chayse and booked my eighth session for next week.

NIKKI-           Honestly, dating is a nightmare.

MELANIE-    At least Chayse won’t let me down and he’s always been reliable, and I can fall back on Chayse at any time. Plus he’s going away for three weeks and I had to get another visit in before he goes away and get my fix before that happens.

EMMA-         Melanie, what are your hopes for your future?

MELANIE-    To be honest, I’m looking for a Chayse replacement for free this time. Somebody who loves me and loves what I like, and can replace Chayse and do everything for free. That’s my ultimate goal. And Chayse knew that from the very beginning, that he would teach me everything I needed and then I would find someone who could do it. Chayse has set the bar very high. I don’t know if I ever want to live with anyone now because I’ve been on my own for so long, I think it would just get annoying. But if they want to visit and stay a night every now and then, that would be my ideal set-up.

CHAYSE-      We’ve had the chats about online dating. It takes time for the best of us to find someone. It’s not anything to do with who you are and you’ve always got to think that, you can’t take things personal around online dating, because the most socially attractive beautiful people get rejected too. I get rejected too. We all have bad experiences. It’s keeping that lovely positive mind that you have open and accepting, and you will find someone. 100%, I absolutely guarantee it.

MELANIE-    Yeah. And if I don’t have any luck, then Chayse will be the guy I go to for the rest of my life.

NIKKI-           Well listen, come back on. Because I know you’re going to find someone, you’re too cool to not. Come back on and let us know when you do find somebody. And I reckon you and Chayse will probably stay in touch. I’d love you to. You’re brilliant. Thank you so much for today.

MUSIC-         Music

NIKKI-           Okay, how do we follow that, Emma? What a conversation.

EMMA-         An absolute education.

NIKKI-           Yeah.

EMMA-         Brilliant. Thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed that.

NIKKI-           Loved it. Loved it.

EMMA-         Now what I’m about to talk about is potentially not as sexy, but I did find out something new this week, Nikki.

NIKKI-           What did you find out, Emma Tracey?

EMMA-         Well, let me tell you. I found out that the Minister for Disabled People, Tom Pursglove, is also responsible for fraud, error and debt for the Department of Work and Pensions.

NIKKI-           Hmmm, hmm. Hmmm, hmm.

EMMA-         Some might say that the coming together of these two roles is a bit unfortunate.

NIKKI-           Yes.

EMMA-         Because disabled people have felt like they’ve been seen, as one blogger put it, benefit scrounging scum, so they will have their backs up if the same person is dealing with benefit fraud who is dealing with their benefits.

NIKKI-           Yeah. Because they look to Tom to help come up with ideas on how to support people into work, or support if you can’t work. Then you’ve got the whole benefit... It’s just a bit unfortunate, isn’t it?

EMMA-         Well it is. And do you know how I found out the information? Because I didn’t even know he was accountable for fraud in the DWP. But I did see it on a video that came out.

NIKKI-           Yes, I saw that. Was it that video tweeted out by the DWP last week where Mr Pursglove attends a dawn raid on the house of a benefit fraud suspect? Now I’m only slightly giggling as I’m saying that because it was very much in the style of Taken.

EMMA-         The Liam Neeson film. Listen to it, tell us what you think. Here’s a clip.

TOM-             [Police sirens in the background] We will track you down, we will find you, and we will bring you to justice. I’m here at dawn to see for myself a joint operation, a raid that’s being carried out between the DWP Economic and Serious Organised Crime Team and the Metropolitan Police, to make sure that we bring to justice fraudsters who are cheating our benefits system.

NIKKI-           It’s not Liam Neeson, guys. It’s not Liam Neeson. This is Tom Pursglove. We’ve had him on the show. That was Tom Pursglove.

EMMA-         The Disability Minster, yeah. Disabled people were upset with the first tweet that went out, which didn’t have much of the context of the fraud raid that they were on so they actually deleted that tweet, which caused even more interest, I think. Then they put out another one with that same video, so they’ve put out two different tweets with this video, but they put more context and more text around the fact that the alleged fraudsters that they were going after had created 15 identities and defrauded the system of £800,000 of disability benefit money. They put all that in the tweet the second time because I think people got a bit confused the first time, because the Disability Minister, Tom Pursglove, was front and centre in a video about disability benefit fraud.

NIKKI-           Yeah. I’d love to have been part of the storyboarding session for that. [Laughs] “Tom, we need you to channel Liam Neeson. Have you watched Taken, Tom?”

EMMA-         I think he’s too young even to have watched it.

NIKKI-           Oh gosh, don’t say that, Ems. But in all seriousness, there has been a lot of reaction. Disability Rights UK Chief Exec, Kamran Mallick, told us, “As the cost of living crisis continues to impact heavily on disabled people, he should be doing all – he as in Tom – should be doing all he can to support those on benefits and ensure it’s a fair system for all. This video was shocking to see from the DWP, and with the Minister fronting it this language and approach can promote more hatred towards disabled people.” He ended with the word “unacceptable”. So, you know, that’s the side, that is definitely very much the point-of-view from a lot of disability campaigners and disabled people themselves. Whether it’s something we need to put to Tom and get him on again, Ems?

EMMA-         The DWP told Access All, “We make no apology for using our channels to both deter fraudsters and reassure the public that we are using every tool in our armoury to protect taxpayers’ money. As is usual, the Minister’s portfolio also covers other areas, one of which is fraud against the welfare system. This cost the taxpayer £8.6bn last year, and it is right that we do all we can to reduce that and ensure money goes to those who need it.” It was definitely a talking point this week.

NIKKI-           It was a talking point, but my goodness, I’m never going to look at Tom Pursglove again.

EMMA-         In the same way.

NIKKI-           In the same way, no. I’ve seen his arms. I’ve seen his biceps. He was wearing a flat jacket. So get in touch about this or anything else. You can send us a text or voice message to this WhatsApp number, 0330 123 9480. Don’t forget to start your message with the word “Access”. Or you can tweet us on @BBCAccessAll, and our email is accessall@bbc.co.uk

MUSIC-         Music

NIKKI-           Well, that’s it for another week. And what a week, “Phew”, I feel a bit hot. Hot baby!

EMMA-         I haven’t recovered yet, I’ll be honest. It was brilliant.

NIKKI-           Great birthday edition, wasn’t it?

EMMA-         Access All, that’s us, returns every week on the usual channels, on air and online.

NIKKI-           And you can look out for us on BBC News site, because every week wonderful Beth who’s a part of our team, the online ninja, will whack up an article, and she’s going to be writing one about Melanie and Chayse, so definitely check that out on the site.

EMMA-         Yeah. And if you’d had to skip it because you’ve got small kids in the room, you can nip online and have a wee read.

NIKKI-           That’s a good idea.

EMMA-         We get some really great stories from listeners, don’t we Nikki?

NIKKI-           Oh yeah.

EMMA-         And we have been checking some of those out this week, so do email us because it might be something that we call follow up and bring to the podcast.

NIKKI-           Yes, we might be in touch. Until next time though lovely listeners. Goodbye.

EMMA-         Goodbye.

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