The Lost Boy

12th May 2023

bbc.co.uk/accessall

Access All – episode 52

Presented by Nikki Fox and Emma Tracey

EMMA-           One of our contributors, Charleston, who you’ll hear in a little bit, he is a fellow mobility scooter user.

NIKKI-            Yeah.

EMMA-           And when he came in you and him started shooting the breeze and getting massively geeky about your mobility scooters.

NIKKI-            I was just very envious of his ride; it was like proper primped.

EMMA-           I was just gripped, and I was so sad it wasn’t part of the item we were doing. So, we had to fit it in somewhere. Let’s drop in on a bit of the conversation now.

NIKKI-            Oh no.

[Clip]

NIKKI-            Yours is bigger than mine! Hello, sweetheart.

CHARLESTON-   I knew you were going to say something.

NIKKI-            So lovely to meet you, Charleston.

CHARLESTON-   You too.

NIKKI-            Emma? I’ve got Emma in my ears.

EMMA-           Hi.

NIKKI-            I think she’s saying hi.

CHARLESTON-   I can hear her.

NIKKI-            This is the best scooter. This [car horn] all over my scooter, this does.

CHARLESTON-   [Laughs]

NIKKI-            Oh, that goes to eight miles an hour, doesn’t it?

CHARLESTON-   That’s an eight, yeah.

NIKKI-            You see, mine’s capped at four. But Charleston will also have a button where you can limit it at four or you can have it at eight, which I used to have on the Rascal 600 turbo, my very first scooter.

EMMA-           Rascal 600 turbo! Dave, are you recording this?

CHARLESTON-   Because legally you can only do four miles an hour on the pavement.

NIKKI-            Yes.

CHARLESTON-   Even though those high-powered two-wheeled scooters can do 12.

NIKKI-            It had a little thing as well, Charleston, where the seat would raise up high. They don’t make them like that anymore.

CHARLESTON-   Oh no, they do. They do the Q500.

NIKKI-            Oh, do they?

CHARLESTON-   Yeah, I can’t even remember who it’s by. They do one that’s called the Q500.

EMMA-           Oh, I love this scooter geekery, geekery.

CHARLESTON-   Oh no, I’m looking for the Meyra Optimus RS, which is actually an eight mile an hour wheelchair. But the control is a joystick.

NIKKI-            Right.

CHARLESTON-   [Fading away] And it’s rear-wheel driven…

[End of clip]

NIKKI-            Oh, I do get excited about scooters, don’t I?

EMMA-           I just love a bit of disability gadget geekery.

NIKKI-            You love this, don’t you?

EMMA-           I do.

NIKKI-            You love it.

EMMA-           It’s the minutia. It’s the little things that I did not know.

MUSIC-           Theme.

NIKKI-            This is Access All. We are the BBC’s disability and mental health podcast. I’m Nikki Fox and I am in London.

EMMA-           And I’m Emma Tracey and I’m in Edinburgh.

NIKKI-            It’s Eurovision this week, one of my favourite weeks of the year. It’s the song competition that over the years has seen a fair few disabled contestants take part. We’re going to take a look at this year’s line-up.

EMMA-           Now, have you seen Disney’s latest film, Peter Pan and Wendy? Well, later we’ll be joined by Noah Matthews Matofsky who plays the leader of the lost boys, and he’s noteworthy to us because he’s got Down’s Syndrome. I’m told that he’s very good at roasting, so I’m looking forward to a really nice dinner.

NIKKI-            I’m actually terrified. No, that’s not that roasting, Ems.

EMMA-           Sorry, okay.

NIKKI-            Tell your friends and colleagues about us, subscribe on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

                       But first a report on disability and homelessness was published this week, and one figure from it jumped out at us. Now, in England between 2018 and 2022 there was a 73% increase in households which are homeless and also have a disabled person. Now, when we say household here what we’re saying is that could be a single person all the way up to a large family. So, what can be done to slow the rise? And what support exists for people who are disabled and homeless? Dr Beth Stone is a lecturer at the Centre of Disability Studies at the University of Bristol, and Beth co-authored the report for the Centre of Homelessness impact. She is here to fill us in. Cor, that was a bit of a mouthful, wasn’t it, Beth?

BETH-             [Laughs]

NIKKI-            So lovely to meet you though, Beth. Thank you so much for coming on.

BETH-             Thank you for having me.

NIKKI-            Oh, thank you darling. I’m also joined in the studio by fellow mobility scooter user, Charleston. And you have twice found yourself homeless, haven’t you, Charleston?

CHARLESTON-   I have yes, unfortunately yes.

NIKKI-            So, we’re going to talk about all your experiences in a minute. Thank you both for joining us. First of all I’m going to start with you Beth, because obviously you’ve done all of this research, why are disabled people at higher risk of homelessness? What has your research found?

BETH-             I think there’s a number of reasons at play here, but probably the largest factor is poverty. So, disabled people are more than twice as likely to live in poverty in the UK than non-disabled people. And we know that that’s a big risk factor for homelessness. But I think there’s a lot of other related factors too: low employment rates, reduced social support and housing accessibility is key. So, we know that a lot of homes in the UK aren’t accessible. I was reading this morning that there’s 100,000 people waiting for accessible or adaptable homes in England alone. So, we think all of those factors are really important. If you are waiting for those homes and you’re at risk of losing your current home your housing options are really reduced.

NIKKI-            But there are a lot of figures out there; it’s hard to get a real grasp on this situation.

CHARLESTON-   On which ones you should trust.

NIKKI-            Yeah. Why is that, Beth?

BETH-             So, there are so many issues with the way that this data is recorded. In England and Wales we have something called priority need, which means that a disabled person has to meet a number of other criteria to be accepted as homeless, including whether you’re meeting a test of vulnerability, which essentially means you have to prove you’re more vulnerable than a person who also has housing issues because of that disability; which is arguably subjective and can be applied inconsistently. So, the figures that we see are people who have met this quite narrow definition. And also the way that we record homelessness is different across the UK nations. So, actually these figures are showing us there’s  high level of disability in people who are getting this support, but actually they’re really likely to underestimate the issue because they’re excluding people whose disability isn’t disclosed, where it hasn’t been recognised, or where people don’t meet the other criteria.

CHARLESTON-   With the way that they do it in England and Wales the numbers of disabled people that need housing it’s not making sense. Because England and Wales go, oh yeah there’s fewer. No, there’s fewer people that have met the criteria of the way that England and Wales actually deal with it, because Scotland and Ireland are completely different.

NIKKI-            Why is it also so complex?

CHARLESTON-   Yeah.

NIKKI-            And you know when you were looking at these figures as well -I mean, obviously I know of course there’s crossover with physical disability and mental health, of course we know – but do they break it down? Because would that actually in this situation be quite helpful, or not?

BETH-             It would be really helpful I think. So, Wales at least have a category for learning disability; but they equate that with mental ill health and learning difficulties, so even there we’ve still got some issues. And England don’t have a category for that at all, at least in terms of collecting priority need. So, what this means is yes, we can get kind of an idea of the fact there is an issue, there is an over-prevalence, but we really don’t know exactly what that looks like.

EMMA-           To make it more complex again, Beth, what sorts of homeless situations do disabled people find themselves in? Because it’s not all about rough sleeping, is it?

BETH-             It’s not all about rough sleeping. And I think one of the things to point out is obviously people can experience a range of different situations. I’ve spoken to a lot of different people who have described loads of different experiences, the autistic people I’ve spoken to were reporting higher rates of rough sleeping because of the difficulty engaging with services; services weren’t meeting their needs, which was making it less likely that they were able to exit that situation.

                       But I think the really key thing here is the issues with housing that aren’t recorded. So, I think what we’ll likely find is there are a lot of people who are in inaccessible or an inappropriate housing who aren’t being counted as homeless officially, but really they are.

NIKKI-            Now, Charleston, I mentioned this at the start of our interview, but you’ve been without a home twice, haven’t you, in your life.

CHARLESTON-   Yeah.

NIKKI-            Can you tell us how that came about?

CHARLESTON-   Well, the first time, a bit of a weird situation, I was living on a boat, did the boat up, and the boat got nicked.

NIKKI-            Oh!

CHARLESTON-   Yeah, I know. The longest story, a story for another time, but the boat got nicked. I carried on working. I was a doorman at the time, so obviously walking [laughs].

NIKKI-            Yeah.

CHARLESTON-   I literally lived on the streets under a railway bridge for nearly six months.

NIKKI-            And I must mention, obviously you’re using a mobility scooter now – the most pimped out amazing scooter I’ve seen in a long time – but back then that first time when you said you were walking you do have autism and ADHD as well, don’t you?

CHARLESTON-   I do, yeah. So, I’ve got ADHD and I’m hyperactive, but I’ve got used to the autism, I’ve got used to the way it works. But for me my version of autism hasn’t shown up as much through the homelessness as it would for other people.

NIKKI-            I guess the second time that you found yourself homeless that was when you had MS and you were using a scooter. I’m just going to go out on a limb and say that was harder then to deal with?

CHARLESTON-   Yeah, it was harder, but I was more of a Victor Meldrew and I’d got older, you know, [laughter] I was able to moan at more people. So, yes it was harder. Streetwise I was roaming around on this, charged it in a McDonalds, spent two days until 6am basically wandering around and sitting in a McDonalds.

NIKKI-            Is that what you did?

CHARLESTON-   Yeah. Separation because of DV, I’m a survivor.

EMMA-           Domestic violence.

NIKKI-            Is that domestic violence?

CHARLESTON-   Domestic violence. And I just went right, okay, I’ve got credit cards; hotel, three and a half months of charges on  hotels with credit cards. Still paying it off now. Then a couple of months staying on a friend’s sofa. And then realising that that wasn’t going to work because they had more issues than I did. And then I ended up phoning the council again.

NIKKI-            Beth, is this kind of story common?

BETH-             Definitely. And I think there are two points there which are really important, which Charleston has highlighted: the first one is this idea of being intentionally homeless, so this idea that if you have a place that the council decides is reasonable for you to stay in then they kind of say, we can’t offer you support. And we see that a lot. And again going back to this idea of inaccessibility, what does that mean to a person, and what does it mean to the person who’s judging it? Which we see don’t often marry up.

                       And I think the other important factor there is thinking about intersectionality, so other factors relating to inequality or disadvantage which can intersect really or overlap to further kind of discriminate or stigmatise. To give some examples we know that in healthcare for example that people with learning disabilities who are from black, Asian and ethnic minority communities face significant barriers to healthcare. And in terms of homelessness there are barriers relating to disability which increase risk of homelessness, but we also need to think about how that intersects with other things like sexuality, gender identity, ethnicity, past experiences of abuse and so on. So, it’s really complex. But it’s really important to acknowledge all those factors because if we only focus on one we kind of risk ignoring this diversity of experience, which makes it really hard to support people.

EMMA-           Charleston, when you were not staying in the hotel anymore, you weren’t staying on someone’s sofa, you ended up in a hostel, what was that like?

CHARLESTON-   They saved me.

EMMA-           In what way?

CHARLESTON-   Let me rewind because I’ll carry on talking about something else and then I won’t cry, which is good [laughs]. So, the hostel saved me. They put me up in a disabled room. I had a wet room. I had my own little kitchenette, I was able to actually cook my own food; not that well because I’ve got MS and I was fatigued to bejesus. But I had my own space. I had my own door. I had my own freedom. And when you feel secure then you’re able to start healing. With MS if you’re stressed and you’re more fatigued then you’re more tired, then you do less. So, the hostel was absolutely amazing.

EMMA-           But you did have a battle for housing though.

CHARLESTON-   Oh yes, I did. I was calling the council up regularly to actually ask them, ‘What’s going on? What’s going on? What’s going on?’

NIKKI-            Have you got one now?

CHARLESTON-   I have got one now.

NIKKI-            And how long did that take?

CHARLESTON-   From being made homeless to actually being housed it was just under two years.

NIKKI-            Right, okay.

EMMA-           Beth, from your research what can be done about this? What can be done about situations like Charleston’s and like the people that you’ve been speaking to?

BETH-             It’s a really good question. I think there’s a much wider issue of relating to disability exclusion and how we value and support people in society. But that’s a much bigger question, I’m not sure I’d be able to answer briefly. But I think there’s a number of smaller practical measures. Reducing a lot of this bureaucracy and the way that the systems don’t really match up and we need much more collaborative working between them. But I think there’s also a real need for increasing awareness of disability in the sector, especially in the case of hidden disabilities, across the homelessness sector. And there are some excellent toolkits that services can use in terms of supporting people with autism and learning disability. There are a lot of examples of good practice, but unfortunately they’re happening quite separately. And there’s a bit of an issue with the postcode lottery of support across the UK because we don’t really have national guidelines and then practice that’s consistently applied.

                       And hearing from people themselves about what the barriers they encounter are, because I think that’s the best way to identify those barriers.

NIKKI-            Now, Ems, you contacted the government about this, didn’t you?

EMMA-           Yes. A Department for Levelling Up spokesperson said, ‘Everyone deserves the security of a safe and secure home. That is why we are determined to prevent homelessness and to help people to stay in their homes by giving councils one billion pounds through the Homelessness Prevention Grant over three years. Councils also have a duty to offer tailored support to vulnerable people, including help to access accommodation through Housing First and engagement with mental health and employment services’.

NIKKI-            Thank you for being so honest about your situation, Charleston.

CHARLESTON-   No problem.

NIKKI-            Beth, you’re a superstar. Thank you so much. Now, if you’ve been affected by the issues that we’ve discussed today details of homelessness organisations are on the website, bbc.co.uk/actionline. And if you can relate to Charleston’s story or have any thoughts on the subject please do get in contact with us. Email accessall@bbc.co.uk.

                       Hey Emma, guess what?

EMMA-           What?

NIKKI-            Eurovision week, isn’t it? [Fanfare music] My favourite week of the year, well one of my favourite weeks of the year.

EMMA-           Yay. And commiserations to Ireland because Wild Youth, very much touted by Niall Horan etc. were knocked out in the semi-finals.

NIKKI-            Do you know why I’m laughing?

EMMA-           Why are you laughing?

NIKKI-            Because the Irish band, [laughingly] I saw a tweet saying, ‘First mammal toe on the competition’.

EMMA-           Mammal toe?

NIKKI-            You won’t have seen this, but the Irish guy was wearing very tight gold pants. And at the front – you know obviously camel toe?

EMMA-           Mm, yeah. No, I actually don’t really know what camel toe is.

NIKKI-            Okay, this is another bonus of being blind, right, you don’t have to see camel toes. But camel toes are when your trousers are a bit too tight and you can sort of see the outline of your private parts, okay, that’s a woman.

EMMA-           Oh, that’s camel toe?

NIKKI-            That’s a camel toe.

EMMA-           I’ve got leather trousers that I need to be really careful of that with.

NIKKI-            Yeah, well I’d always tell you if you had camel toe.

EMMA-           [Laughs].

NIKKI-            I’m sure you’ve got friends and family on camel watch.

EMMA-           Yeah! [laughs]

NIKKI-            But obviously because he’s a man it’s mammal toe. And I’ve just been told in the gallery there’s another way of describing it: a moose knuckle. This time last year, do you remember, we had the fabulous Sheldon Riley on, didn’t we.

EMMA-           Oh, he was great.

NIKKI-            We loved it.

EMMA-           He was Australian, he was autistic, and his song was all about being autistic which I really loved.

NIKKI-            [Laughs] he was Australian, he was autistic.

EMMA-           All the A-Us.

NIKKI-            He wore a mask, a beautifully decorated mask, to highlight the whole kind of you know how people with autism mask in their life to try and, you know.

EMMA-           That was such a lovely metaphor.

NIKKI-            Oh, it was beautiful, wasn’t it. But it made me think, Ems, have we got any disabled acts this year? Because I did a little quick search and I couldn’t really find any.

EMMA-           Well, there are normally a fair few acts who are disabled or who we can take as one of us. But I did have to go through the whole list of songs and the summaries of each on the BBC website to try and eek out some disability promise this year.

NIKKI-            Well, listen, if anyone’s going to find disability it’s going to be you, Emma, let’s face it.

EMMA-           It’s me, absolutely.

NIKKI-            She’ll find a link.

EMMA-           I’ll always find a link, and I did find a link.

NIKKI-            Ooh!

EMMA-           Yes, and it’s mostly around mental health this year, right.

NIKKI-            Okay, okay.

EMMA-           So, we have from Greece 16 year old Victor Vernicos with his acousta-ballad, think Ed Sheeran [music clip].

NIKKI-            I think he sounds a bit like Lewis Capaldi.

EMMA-           Yeah. Well, like Lewis Capaldi he experiences panic attacks and anxiety, and this song is all about that.

NIKKI-            I think he’s got a lovely voice actually.

EMMA-           Then we have Lithuania, Nikki. [Music clip] and it’s Monika Linkyte – I don’t think I’m saying her name currently – she sings about how hard it is to help somebody through depression, and she pleads for that help to stick around. So, they were the two that I picked out of the list. But there is a tenuous link with the UK entry, and that’s by Mae Muller as we all know.

NIKKI-            Oh, I know what you’re going to say. This is as tenuous as…

EMMA-           I don’t know if it’s that tenuous. But she says, ‘When you said you were leaving to work on your mental health…’

NIKKI-            Yeah, but she’s just saying that because obviously he went off and just went off with another girl or something, didn’t he? [Music clip] Ready? Come on, Ems.

SONG-            When you said you were leaving to work on your mental health, you didn’t mention the cheating.

EMMA-           So, do you think he was lying?

NIKKI-            Yeah, ‘You didn’t mention the cheating’ you kept that to yourself, love.

SONG-            I was going to cuss you out outside your house for everyone to see.

NIKKI-            I’m actually dancing, Em.

EMMA-           Well, the song is actually about a girl thinking of all the things she can do to her rotten cheating boyfriend, and she decides to write a song instead.

NIKKI-            She doesn’t do it so she writes a song.

EMMA-           Yes, so it’s almost like journaling. It’s like getting it down on paper instead of doing something she would regret, I suppose. And it’s called I Wrote a Song.

NIKKI-            Now, it’s only got a few more days to run, but don’t miss the brilliant Eurovisioncast podcast. It’s made by our team and it’s brilliant. You can find it on BBC Sounds. Lucy Edwards, a blind TV presenter who was on our podcast and is on those hair commercials showing off her stunning red hair, well she’s been presenting a podcast also with comedian Abi Clarke, and that’s called Eurovision Described. They revisit iconic Eurovision performances through the art of audio description, and then Lucy and Abi rate them. Why did we not get on that, Ems?

EMMA-           Oh my god, when I was listening to it this week I was like, why did we not get that?

NIKKI-            Because you know I’m getting on board with that audio description malarkey, and the alt text and everything. You liked my alt text, didn’t you, this weekend?

EMMA-           I did like your alt text this weekend, ‘She’s got too much make-up on and looks knackered’. I’m not sure that was subjective, but anyway, it was really good, I really enjoyed it, informative and entertaining. As was the audio description on Lucy’s podcast, which was done by professionals. So, they got professionals to audio describe some Eurovision entries. One of them was Scooch, do you remember them?

NIKKI-            What a genius idea.

EMMA-           Yeah. one of the audio description people was our Georgina who we had on.

NIKKI-            Well, let’s hear a clip.

[Clip]

LUCY-            Shall we stick Scooch on, then?

ABI-                Absolutely.

LUCY-            Okay.

ABI-                Yes please.

GEORGINA-    [Music] An airport setting. United Kingdom, Scooch, Flying the Flag for You. [Music: Flying the Flag for You] The four-piece group, two men and two women, extend their arms like aeroplane wings.

LUCY-            The audio description is really scathing to choreography.

ABI-                I was going to say, and also know nothing about the outfits.

LUCY-            No.

ABI-                Is she going to be out of breath, like, saying it in a minute? Because they’re going to start really rocking.

[End of clip]

EMMA-           They were dissing our Georgina there, dissing our describer, our favourite.

NIKKI-            I know. They said she wasn’t describing enough basically.

EMMA-           I know, but I think she was just trying to let you listen to the music. I’m going to defend her to the  hilt!

NIKKI-            I’m with you.

EMMA-           And she does Strictly, so.

NIKKI-            Yeah. you know how much I love Georgina as well. Hello Georgina, I hope you’re listening.

EMMA-           Hi.

NIKKI-            Well, that podcast is also on BBC Sounds so definitely take a listen. That’ll be my drive home today.

EMMA-           Anyway, the grand final is on Saturday. I think the UK are straight in there, aren’t they, because they’re hosting. And there is a BSL interpreted version on BBC iPlayer.

NIKKI-            Well, actually it’s because we’re one of the five countries that contribute the most to the competition, so we always get straight through.

EMMA-           I think the rules should be changed, Nicola.

NIKKI-            [Laughs] I’m afraid Ireland didn’t make it, Emma, all right. You’ve won enough.

EMMA-           No we haven’t! Never won enough Eurovision.

NIKKI-            Well, you can tell we love Eurovision, can’t you?

EMMA-           Absolutely.

NIKKI-            But we can talk about other things, so do get in touch with us. Tell us what you’re interested in. have you got any stories for us? You could do it in all the usual ways: you could message us 0330 123 9480. You can do that via written word or voice note, whatever you like. Email us accessall@bbc.co.uk, or you can tweet us @BBCAccessAll.

MUSIC-           Access All with Nikki Fox.

EMMA-           Let’s get Noah.

NIKKI-            Let’s get Noah and…

NOAH-            Yeah, let’s get me!

NIKKI-            Yeah. Now, for listeners, let me tell our listeners all about you. So, Peter Pan and Wendy is a live action adaptation of the classic story Peter Pan, which has recently landed on Disney+. And one of the stars with us now is Noah Matthews Matofsky. It’s so lovely meeting you.

NOAH-            Lovely meeting you too.

NIKKI-            Now, for the listeners that don’t know – and I hope you don’t mind – I’m just explaining to them that you’ve got Downs Syndrome, haven’t you?

NOAH-            Yeah.

NIKKI-            And in the movie you’re playing the character, Slightly, the leader of the Lost Boys.

NOAH-            Yeah, the leader!

NIKKI-            For people that don’t know, what is Peter Pan and Wendy about, Noah?

NOAH-            Well, it’s about a boy who never grows up and going on an amazing, one of a kind, lifetime adventure of all lives.

NIKKI-            I’m like the girl that never grew up, I know. I still giggle at things. Give us a bit of an idea of what your character is like?

NOAH-            Well, he’s cheeky, funny and does lots of pranks.

NIKKI-            That must be a very fun character to play?

NOAH-            Oh hell, yeah!

NIKKI-            [Laughter] And the sword fighting, tell me about that. Did you need to get some practice in beforehand?

NOAH-            Yeah. I’m practising like sword fighting practice.

NIKKI-            What was that like?

NOAH-            It was amazing.

NIKKI-            Was it?

NOAH-            Yeah, yeah.

NIKKI-            What was it like working alongside all the other actors, Noah?

NOAH-            Oh, Jude Law was amazing.

NIKKI-            Oh, tell me about Jude Law.

NOAH-            He actually drove an ice-cream truck on a normal filming day.

NIKKI-            What, just so you could have ice-cream or was that part of his character? He plays Captain Hook, doesn’t he?

NOAH-            Yeah.

NIKKI-            So, did he drive it as part of the movie or was it just to give you ice-cream?

NOAH-            To give us ice-cream.

EMMA-           What’s your favourite ice-cream flavour, Noah?

NOAH-            Mint choc chip.

EMMA-           Good choice.

[Clip]

WENDY-         I don’t want things to grow up. I want things to stay the way they are.

MOTHER-       You can’t stop time, Wendy, whether you like it or not.

[End of clip]

NIKKI-            Do you mind me asking as well, Noah, does your character, Slightly, have Down’s Syndrome as well?

NOAH-            No.

NIKKI-            No, so just not at all. It’s completely not relevant at all then?

NOAH-            No.

NIKKI-            And how do you feel about that? Is that good for you?

NOAH-            Yeah, good for me, yeah good.

EMMA-           Why is it good for you? Why is it good that Slightly doesn’t particularly have Down’s Syndrome?

NOAH-            It’s only part of me but not all of me.

NIKKI-            Yeah, 100%, 100%. And I guess as well for you, Noah, you’re not always going to want to play roles in the future, are you, that are just written for a character with Down’s Syndrome? You just want to be up for any role that you can do.

NOAH-            Yeah, any role.

EMMA-           And you’ve played other roles as well, haven’t you, in your drama group? You’ve played in Bugsy Malone. Who did you play?

NOAH-            I played Leroy.

EMMA-           Tell me a bit more about your drama group.

NOAH-            I love my drama group. We’re currently on Godspell.

EMMA-           You’re currently on Godspell? Oh, I like Godspell a lot. Lots of singing. Are you a good singer?

NOAH-            I’m a pretty good singer.

NIKKI-            Yeah, Emma Tracey you’re a good singer as well. You’re going to have a sing-off with Noah.

NOAH-            Yeah [laughs].

EMMA-           Well, I was thinking more of a rap-off that Nikki you and Noah might do. Because Noah, what did you used to do with the pirates between takes on the film?

NOAH-            I rapped and roasted them on the boat.

NIKKI-            Rap and roasted?

NOAH-            Yeah!

NIKKI-            What, as in like dig them out?

NOAH-            Yeah!

NIKKI-            Like the comedy roast. Go on, try roasting me, Noah. I can take it. I’m only a very, very fragile television presenter. But go on, I can take it. I think I can take it. Go on.

NOAH-            Okay. You’re funny.

NIKKI-            Ooh.

NOAH-            Funny looking. [Laughter]

EMMA-           Oh god, I’m a bit afraid now.

NIKKI-            Noah, I’ve had that before on social media. Someone said to me, ‘Nikki Fox is either a very funny looking woman or a very attractive hamster’.

[Clip]

SLIGHTLY-     These brothers of yours what do they look like?

WENDY-         Well, John’s this tall, and Michael’s this tall, and John he has a hat, he has a top hat.

SLIGHTLY-     Oh, a hat!

WENDY-         Yes, but I don’t know if he’s wearing it so he might be this tall.

[End of clip]

NIKKI-            I did want to ask you though, Noah, how you got the part of Slightly? What was that process like? Did the producers contact you? How did it all go?

NOAH-            My agency told me about an audition for a random film. So, I did the video or self-tape, then sent it to Disney. And then a few months I got a role.

NIKKI-            So good. Did you have to go and meet anyone in person or was it just done by self-tape?

NOAH-            Self-tapes and Zoom.

NIKKI-            Amazing.

EMMA-           Because it was in the pandemic, wasn’t it?

NOAH-            Yeah, it was.

EMMA-           What did you do in your self-tape?

NOAH-            Well, I tied myself to a pole.

NIKKI-            As you do.

EMMA-           Yeah, why not?

NIKKI-            Yeah.

EMMA-           So, you tied yourself to a pole pirate style, like in the film.

NOAH-            Yeah.

WARREN-       And why did we tie you onto a pole?

NOAH-            It was on a beach, the pole was. Because we live by the beach.

NIKKI-            So, tell me some more goss about the set. I want to know. So, Jude Law got your ice-cream, drove the actual truck.

NOAH-            Yeah.

NIKKI-            You roasted him?

NOAH-            Not him. The pirate crew.

NIKKI-            You didn’t roast the Law.

[Clip]

SLIGHTLY-     Captain, it’s Peter Pan. [Loud booms and cries]

HOOK-            Never say his name!

[End of clip]

EMMA-           So, where was the set, Noah? Where was Peter Pan and Wendy filmed?

NOAH-            It was in Vancouver and Newfoundland.

NIKKI-            Oh wow, you went abroad. Did your dad go with you?

NOAH-            Well, my mum went for three months, and then my dad swapped, came back with Lola, and then my dad came for the last three months.

NIKKI-            Aw.

EMMA-           Lola is your sister, isn’t she?

NOAH-            Yeah. At the time she was doing her stressful exams.

NIKKI-            I’ve just seen you on the video there doing quotation marks, Noah, as if you don’t believe that they were that stressful.

EMMA-           [Laughs] So, did you have to do school when you were on set then? Seeing as your sister was at home working hard.

NOAH-            Unfortunately yes.

EMMA-           Oh man. So, what kind of school was it?

NOAH-            It was in a trailer with a TA.

EMMA-           A TA, teaching assistant?

NIKKI-            Yeah, I always wonder how, I hear about child stars, you hear about the stars of Harry Potter having to do their schooling and their acting at the same time and I just think, that must be an awful lot. Because I know that you must work very, very long days on set, and to fit in schooling as well must have been really quite hard.

NOAH-            Yeah.

WARREN-       School sent the work.

NOAH-            Oh, the school from here sent to work to Disney so I can do work there.

EMMA-           What did you think of Canada?

NOAH-            One of a kind. Best places to go.

NIKKI-            Really?

NOAH-            Yeah.

EMMA-           Why?

NOAH-            I loved the food. I loved the culture. There’s even a cheesecake and jazz.

NIKKI-            What, jazz music and cheesecake?

NOAH-            Yeah.

NIKKI-            Hello! That sounds like heaven. Did you at all feel a bit nervous, or were you a bit intimidated? Or did you just think no, this is my time to shine?

NOAH-            This is my time to shine!

EMMA-           Brilliant.

NOAH-            Nervous is not in my dictionary.

NIKKI-            For people that haven’t seen the movie what is the best bit, Noah, of the film that you’re in that people should look out for?

NOAH-            Oh, the ship even turns upside down.

NIKKI-            No!

EMMA-           So, did you actually have to hang upside down?

NOAH-            Yeah.

NIKKI-            I love that.

EMMA-           How long did you have to hang upside down for?

NOAH-            For like 20 or 50 hours.

NIKKI-            Ay?

NOAH-            Yeah.

WARREN-       You’re joking.

NIKKI-            Are you having us on?

WARREN-       Tell them five minutes.

NOAH-            Five minutes.  

NIKKI-            Tell me your dad’s name again?

NOAH-            Warren.

NIKKI-            I just wanted to ask you, Warren darling, are you proud of Noah? You must be completely in awe.

WARREN-       Noah has been so amazing through this whole process. You were asking if he was nervous; he was a total pro over there. He worked really hard on his studies. And as you said, long hours doing lots of takes and he just got on with it. Really, really impressed. An inspiration to us all.

EMMA-           And he was 13 then.

WARREN-       Only 13. And really he’d not been in anything before. He’d been in his class nativity, he went along to a drama group, and he went from there to like, you know, a big budget Hollywood movie.

NIKKI-            Well, listen, why don’t you give us a big old plug for your movie?

NOAH-            Go and see it. you will love it. it’s on Disney+.

NIKKI-            And what’s it called?

NOAH-            Peter Pan and Wendy!

NIKKI-            And what character do you play?

NOAH-            Slightly!

NIKKI-            Who is without a doubt the best character I would imagine.

EMMA-           Absolutely.

NOAH-            Yeah.

NIKKI-            Oh, that was Noah. What a roast, ay, Ems? What a roast. Now, we are Access All and we are here every week on BBC Sounds. Hit the subscribe button and we will drop on your phone or device every time a new edition appears.

EMMA-           We want to hear from you so you can tweet us @BBCAccessAll, email us accessall@bbc.co.uk, or leave a voice or text message on our WhatsApp number, it’s 0330 123 9480.

NIKKI-            Until next week everyone, bye.

EMMA-           Bye.

NIKKI-            Enjoy Eurovision punks.

[Trailer for Eurovisioncast]

MALE-            Hello, United Kingdom. This is Eurovisioncast.

FEMALE-        Who’s going to win Eurovision?

FEMALE-        12 points go to: [cheering] Ukraine!

MALE-            Being able to make the Ukrainian people and the rest of Europe really proud.

MALE-            Welcome to Liverpool!

MALE-            Eurovisioncast.

FEMALE-        The ultimate backstage pass to Eurovision 2023 in Liverpool.

MANS-            Join Nina, Daniel, Ngunan, and me Måns.

FEMALE-        As we bring you all of the news, views and gossip…

MALE-            From the greatest show on Earth.

MAE-              Hey guys, I’m Mae Muller, please come and join our Eurovision family.

MALE-            Oh wow.

FEMALE-        Eurovisioncast.

MALE-            Listen on BBC Sounds.