Fed Gov Today’s Post

Transcript

Ben Straub of at Lassie and it's great to talk to you again. Thanks for your time today. What are the challenges you've seen agencies come up against in establishing, building out dev secos environments and how have you seen them deal with those obstacles? Ben, welcome. But yeah, you know, I think we really, it always usually starts with the people, right? And kind of that normal resistance to change that we see not just in government, maybe a little more so, but not just in government, pretty much everywhere, right? And so I think there's a change management effort that really has to happen as you begin to build out these practices. We've got to promote all the values that it brings and really what it entails so people understand it, and then also making sure that you're not just doing that with your technical teams, but across the entire program. Mission because the important part there is that it's not, you know, this is a team sport, right? We're no longer just in a in a box kind of programming, right? It's bringing everyone into the mix. So they all need to understand the value of it. And I think some things we've seen that have been effective is bringing folks from industry and that are change agents and have done this. And I think one of the things we can try to do is get a little more flexible with our hiring in government to allow for this to to be, you know, at the higher levels to bring folks in that really have that that experience of doing this from an industry perspective. Are the change management principles that work in DevOps environments in the way you just described them the same change management principles that alley broadly or are they different tailored to this type of an environment? Ben? I mean, there's always going to be some pieces that need to be tailored. But yeah, I don't think it's, it's not something that we need to completely reengineer either, right? I mean, I think in any change effort, whether it be dipstick OPS or other programs that you're bringing in, I think there's the basic principles. But I do think it's important that you've got someone running that that does have that lens of having done it in a dev OPS environment, right? Because that just going to have more credibility and, and be able to speak the language, you know, and you know, much better. But the framework itself is, is probably pretty similar. What are you seeing agencies do to keep those structures flexible and adaptable throughout the lifespan of those given the fact that I think everybody understands this is the way that organizations will be expected to do business moving forward. This is not kind of a hot thing or a phase that organizations are going through. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's really recognizing that it's continuous and there is no end date, right. Like I think sometimes we build out these programs and we, you know, there has to be obviously on paper and end date, you're going to start here and you know, we've got our milestones, but it has there, it has to be revisited on a continuous basis, right, Just like your software, right? I mean, think of the, you know, SAS software environment these days. There's no, I always tell customers there's no end to the implementation because you're constantly improving, right. We need to look at the, you know, the change management program and. For the same way, because obviously you're going to evolve, you're going to mature and things are going to change as you do that in terms of how you operate. So I think that's the biggest thing is just making sure that there is a continuous plan for this and it's not a once and done and and you know, set it and forget it environment. This may be more philosophical than tactical, Ben, but how does one establish mileposts or markers to determine whether you're on track in an environment where continuous improvement is the coin of the realm? Where there's not really, as you say, there's not an end to this because there will be continuous iteration. You don't have something that runs a particular life cycle and then you get rid of it and replace it with something else. Yeah. I mean, I think making sure you've got a very strong feedback mechanism and automated feedback mechanism, right? The ability to capture feedback in the moment, be able to do that actually even in application if possible, and quickly return that back to the folks. And then as well, just from a, you know, overall process perspective, making sure that you've got those touch points and you're listening, right? I mean, it really boils down to that and then recognizing that you may not get it right the first time, right? I think that's the big one is. You put the framework in place. Once you get the feedback, it's not working. You got to have a willingness to pivot and change and not just stay the course because, well, that's what we mapped out, right? Alright, you mentioned people, so you hit the first pillar of the big three people, process and technology. What are the process and technology items that you think devs, Secos, practitioners need to focus on most? And how are the people you've dealt with in government doing at focusing on those process and technology issues? Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think it, it kind of goes back to what I mentioned too, just they're along the lines of like not making this, you know, silo to the technical teams from a process standpoint, right. So the process can't just be what's happening in the development cycle. It's going to be what's happening across the entire ward. So making sure you've got leadership buy in of what that process looks like and they're pushing down the mandate that everybody's involved, right. So the whole concept of team and and creating that. And then, you know, when you think of that being workflows that now go across department and potentially even cross agency or sub agency, that's when we're really going to start to see the impact. Now that's very difficult. I do, I do recognize that. So I'm not saying, you know, sitting here saying that that can happen overnight, but I think to me that's the biggest part of the process that has to be has to be looked at and you know, breaking down the silos and then from a technology standpoint. You know, implementing a platform, you know, it's we always go back and forth between best breeding platform and it seems like it's the cycle, right? But I think it's a combination. So you need to have that platform or common data model that you can then speed off of with an open tool chain. So that way you can swap tools in and out as you maybe don't build their, you know, maturing with you or you about growing them or they just aren't working for you, but you still have that baseline or platform, if you will that. Enables and, and I think we got to recognize, obviously there's no single vendor that can do all of this, but we should have some sort of a foundation, right? But then with all the integration to those open tools chains that, that in any open tool chain that can allow for a more modular approach, being able to have tailored solutions specific to agency or sub agency or department needs, but still governed and, you know, leveraging economies of scale around maintenance and, and everything that goes along with running them. Ben, it's great to talk to you again. Thanks very much for your time today. Thank you.