Rohini and Janvi, thank you so much for joining me. So we're going to talk about the Science Gallery in Bangalore, which has been there for a while and there are some very interesting new exhibitions, but we'll come to that in a moment. So let me try and understand a couple of things. Firstly, from both of you, Rohini, why is science important? And particularly in the target group or audience that we are now focusing on, that is the galleries. Focusing on which is 15 to 30 and how does this concept of science mesh with what you see around or we see around in Bangalore that might be interesting and relevant to people who are not there and could be anywhere else in the world. First of all, thank you Govind for getting Janvi on me and me on this podcast. I I think I came into the science gallery very happily on the invitation of Kiran Mazumdar, who is the chair of the board. And for me it was very important because although unfortunately I studied the liberal arts and wasn't exposed enough to science, maybe precisely because I wasn't exposed to enough science, I began to realize just how much in this century science matters, scientific enquiry matters. It measures itself in every single aspect of our lives. Morning to night of human life and human existence. And I think it's very critically important for Indian cities to have a space, open public space, where people can go to the public and go and really understand. Everything they can about exactly how science measures with their lives, and especially today's emerging sciences. Biotechnology, synthetic biology, artificial intelligence, space exploration, and so on. Nanotechnology, Just everything fascinating. And also. Science and society cannot be separated because most of the burning ethical issues in society come out of scientific exploration and technological application. So I think it's a very critical field. And can I ask you for some examples of that, Rohini, when both 1 is when you say that there is a need for science, I mean, is it something that you've seen or encountered in your own life that you've that attracted you to this or, And the second is when you talk about these burning issues, what's an example that comes to mind? I mean clearly climate change, right? Because of or even the nuclear threat that seems to have receded in the public mind but is still as potent as ever. So like the most popular film in recent. There were times. Oppenheimer's life itself is a great example of that. What science unleashed through technology of nuclear weapons is something that people need to understand when it comes to climate change. People need to understand the discovery of oil and how it was used and what it unwittingly did to the little planet. So understanding how science has developed and what technological applications emerge out of it. And it's it's both the good and bad. Can do right to create a critical thinking public on these issues. I think those are two examples, right? And I'm going to come back on the both the negative and the positive in a moment. John, we tell us about your journey and I mean where you went and how it brought you to this particular project that you have now become so passionately involved in. Thank you guys again for having me on the podcast. So you know, like Rohini mentioned, I also started in the liberal arts. In fact, I, I my first three degrees are in civics and politics, following which I moved to history of science, taking a plunge that I. I'm not entirely sure I knew what I was doing when I joined History of Science, but here I am, 24 years later, completely still in love with the subject. And again, like you know, like Rohini mentioned already, I think even if I take my own. Parent discipline, if that's what one might even call it, because even in history of science, I've been very seriously thinking about science in this state science and democracy, science and state formation science and the administration of science, etc. You know, it's very difficult today to teach something as simple as electoral politics without understanding Cambridge Analytica or what social media has done for electoral behaviour. And so in if our crises today are. Sort of an information deluge. Climate change, new gene technologies, artificial intelligence. Everyday life is being altered in a rapid manner such that we hardly have a have a grasp. Even when we are in the discipline itself. And so it's important, I think, that we have an informed public. That can take informed decisions on things that matter to their everyday life. Like am I choosing the right therapies for myself? What is happening to my vote? Why should I vote or what? How does my lifestyle contribute to climate change and what how might I alter it? How might I alter my, you know, thinking and and opinion in order to influence where the planet is going and, you know, inevitably towards destruction is what? Today find out. So it's For these reasons that I find myself now completely and passionately and you know, kind of not just neck deep. I think I'm nose deep into the project and it's an incredible opportunity. So I, I was teaching, I was an academic when this opportunity came my way. And it wasn't an easy decision in that sense, you know, to, to tell myself, you know, I'm on this kind of predictable. I want this predictable path to a career in academia and to say that I'm now going to try to establish something from scratch. I have no doubt had incredible support. I don't think I could have imagined the kind of support that I have for the project, both from the government of Karnataka but also establishment patrons. And Rouhani is already mentioned, Kiran Mazumdar, Shaw Roni herself, Kris Gopalakrishnan, together with the government have ensured that we are able to realize the kind of institution we all think is necessary for our times. Right. So you talked about history of science. So tell us more about history of science. I mean, I wouldn't have thought of it. So why is history of science important? Uh, to you. And it was, I mean, why was it important to you and why is it important to us or it should be to us? Yeah. So historians of science, like other historians, study transformations in scientific thinking, scientific ideas, the practice of science, the funding of science, the research organization, etcetera, and how effectively overtime the scientific, the nature of scientific inquiry has changed. And I think, if I were to boil it down to one sentence, what history of science offers is an insight into the processes of knowledge production. Be there in the laboratory, be they in the public domain, be they in administration, be they in geopolitics. You know, we we know about export controls and what that does to the possibility of doing research in other countries. For example, you know, I mean, just after the Second World War, dual use technologies, especially nuclear, but also space meant that certain countries were able to do certain kinds of things and others had to in many ways do it. Gorilla right, like or or through what? Yeah, smuggling things and etcetera. So I think. What History of Science allows you to show is how science functions through various registers. And gives you an insight into how that knowledge was produced, why it was produced and to what effect. And it has been interesting for me because I, when I was doing my first work, my first major work, which eventually turned into a book, I did not realize how much of my earlier learning in civics and politics have brought to the study of history of science. So, you know, the state has remained kind of, you know, an important aspect of the work that I do. And I think history of science is important more broadly, you know, more than sort of, you know, the fact that I really just love it. Because if you if we need to understand. The new kinds of knowledge. I mean, we've now been told that we live in a knowledge economy. So if that's where we are, if we are the inhabitants of a knowledge economy, then we need to know who, why, when, where this knowledge is produced and to what effect, because otherwise the decisions on our lives are going to be taken elsewhere. And I think that's why we need to know more What have we done, at what cost?
