#MonkTalk with Dulce Mattos, Head of Planning (Circus): "More than ever, we have an opportunity to make a difference as advertisers."
We met Dulce for the first time at the beginning of our internship when we interviewed female athletes and asked their views on equality in the sports scene. Our intuition was telling us that we need to speak to her again and hear more about what she has to say. As a planner at Circus which is a part of MediaMonks, she is a person who is not afraid of asking hard questions to herself, to others, and to the industry. She says, "There's no time for bullshit." Get down to read her candid story that'll give you perspectives on the future of communication.
Dulce! Welcome to the #MonkTalk. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do at MediaMonks. And let us have a sneak-peek of Circus and the Buenos Aires office where you are stationed.
I’m Dulce Mattos and I am a planner for Circus in the Buenos Aires office which is a part of the MediaMonks family. I’ve worked at Circus for nearly 4 years now. We are called Circus because it's a big tent with several offices across the world. We see ourselves as misfits, people that stand out but don't belong to traditional agencies. The founders of Circus opened a space for all of us to come together and share our creative madness with the world and our office especially focuses on creativity.
In the beginning, I entered there just to see what could happen because I wasn’t feeling that happy in the industry. Luckily, Circus has surprised me on every possible level, such as on the human level, the clients, and the projects that I get to work with.
To give you an example, we have a shared spreadsheet with all of our personal interests, and whenever there's a project that matches that interest, we can jump in, even though it's not your client. This method organically makes your 8 to 10 hours a day more meaningful. So this is a big part of the reasons that made me stay and feel happy in the industry.
So cool, we see a very human-centric approach. But let’s rewind a little bit, how did you end up at Circus?
We've been in touch for quite a while since lots of people from Leo Burnett, that I worked with before moved to Circus. I was not quite sure so it took about nine months to enter the company. But I had already worked freelance for them, they liked my work, and I liked them as well. So in the end, we decided to give it a shot.
Could you explain what you do as a planner for people who want to know better about this role?
Sure. I combine what’s going on in the culture and a specific business needs, and deliver a point of view to both clients and the creative teams that will actually develop a plan to match those needs. By doing so, I make sure that neither the brand efforts nor attention from the audience are misused. In a nutshell, I find a narrative that makes these two worlds coexist.
Right! In the process of finding a narrative what are the most fascinating and challenging parts?
For me it’s like the two sides of a coin, what fascinates me is, at the same time, challenging. I know that we have the power to actually influence people and change their behaviors. So that is amazing and I try to make the best use of it. But the challenge is to make good use of it and we aren't taking advantage of people’s attention. Nowadays, consumers buy stuff that an influencer told them to buy. So the mask is down and we all know what we're doing. But I feel this strong sense of responsibility because there are still a lot of consumers that don't really know what advertising can do with their attention and affect their decisions.
The second challenge is that ads should be effective or original so that it makes people’s attention and time worthy. So it's a double challenge that you have to stand out but also add values to people's life at the same time.
What you said gets me (Jieun) thinking about this documentary ‘Social dilemma’. It made me question a lot about the usage of data, ethics, and all. I think we can come back to this later but before that, can you share what the 3 milestones are that shaped you either in a personal or professional way?
Sure. I'm going to be really personal about this. The first big moment that I remember is when my parents discovered that I had the ability to read and imitate accents when I was around 4 years old. I would imitate accents from people around the world. I wasn't even mocking anybody but just trying to make the sounds you hear.
Then when I was nine, I traveled to Russia, learned the alphabet, and tried to speak Russian. So I’ve kept a really strong inclination towards language throughout my childhood. When my parents realized it, they encouraged me to keep on learning. They were like ‘Go for it, you have to do something with this.’ With their support, I continued to dig my interest in communication and language and that takes up a big portion of the work I do.
My therapist always laughs at me because he says I am always looking for new ways of speaking, like new expressions. It’s simply in my essence, it’s this little girl who is trying to speak in the way other people do.
Then I would say the opportunity that I had at Leo Burnett, at the moment when my boss took me seriously. When someone actually sees what you have to offer and gives you space for it, I consider that as a huge milestone.
The third milestone is the current moment. I find Circus as a space where I can do what I want and doors are being opened for me so that I can sleep at night without frustration. I wake up with the excitement of being able to do what you believe in.
But it's not a miracle, it takes work and a bit of luck to actually meet the right person who acknowledges you, and tells you "it’s going to be okay." For me, that's Bruno, our CEO. He is always like ‘It is going to be okay, you can tell me what you're feeling and what you need. And we will see what we can do about it.’ So there's never a no without an explanation behind it.
Your answer sort of leads to our next question, can you tell us about someone who influenced you in your professional journey?
I look up to Tristan Harris, from the documentary ‘Social dilemma’ you previously mentioned. He’s got the boldest personality that made this movement happen and he is the founder of the Centre for humane technology. I respect his courage in a way that he had the guts at the moment to step out and say ‘Hey this is no longer working for us.’
I first discovered his work around two years ago, when I was thinking on the same level. It was really inspiring to discover that he existed and that his thoughts were actually being listened to and shared with the public.
I had hope that there's a spot for me, and my thoughts weren't something of a hippie from Argentina who wanted to change the industry. It gave me the confirmation that there's a portion of the industry that is moving towards the right direction.
I have another person that I admire, as a woman, thinker, and as a writer which is Susan Sontag. She's precise and critical yet never unfair. She didn’t have a minute to waste. So as a thinker she is a total role model for me. I grew up reading her books and until today, I reread some of her books. She was so ahead of her time, you know.
Do you have any recommendations for us among her works you liked? 📚
Since you guys are creatives, you could read ‘On photography’, that's a great book.
We’ll check it out for sure! As our next question, we wonder the biggest revelation you had during this journey.
Good question. I often ask myself 'What are you going to do when this industry goes to waste? Or what are you going to do to prevent it?'. I am very aware of this challenge. But I don't think everybody does. Lots of agencies are still thinking with a very old mindset. I believe that we have to change the industry. It’s a yes or yes, there's no option for no. Everything is changing at such a fast speed. Now I'm trying to discover what the next step for the industry is and what role I'm going to play in this transformation.
Is it a question that you keep asking yourself?
Correct. When you embrace a new opportunity it makes a difference, every one of them. For instance, choosing people you're going to cast for a TV ad, the way you're going to speak, and the words you're going to use, until some time ago, it was a challenge about being creative. However, today, the challenge no longer solely depends on creativity. The way I see is that there's no more room for irresponsibility in terms of communication.
I want to make sure that every project that meets the market is actually addressing an important cultural issue, and it doesn't have to be boring. It’s about being conscious of whatever you're doing. Even if it's the most creative and funny ad in history, it can still have a layer of adding values to society.
We need to ask important questions to ourselves. How are we going to portray women, children, and POC? How are we going to address the queer issue? There are lots of brands that are pinkwashing their communication strategies. Let's not do that anymore. Let's not greenwash, let's commit to actual cultural change that is going on right now and relevant to the world.
More than ever, we have an opportunity to make a difference as advertisers. If you don’t ride on the new wave you are going to disappear, because there's no room for bullshit.
It's like taking care of the planet. If we continue to burn fossils, we all know what will happen. The human mind is a natural resource too, in a sense. We don’t know what’ll happen in 5 years if we don’t find a way to properly take care of it.
That’s very true. Gosh, you really make us inspired to do good work. Speaking of 5 years, how do you envision yourself?
For about 10-15 years ago, digital wasn't even on the map. And now it is all over the place and it takes a significant place in whatever work we do yet we possibly haven’t figured out how to use it properly. Therefore, I want to see sustainable communication as the next trend in five years. I want every agency to take their eyes off to see what are the most inclusive and diverse ways to actually build blocks toward a fairer world. And I want to be a part of that movement, of course.
How cool, we want to be part of that too for sure. The next question is my (Jieun) favorite one. What inspires you in life? 🎐🎐
I love classic art. I’m utterly fascinated by the ability of those artists in those eras. Because we are very used to TVs and devices, and deconstruction of images for us is very natural. But for them, as in 1500, for instance, they didn't have any of that. Yet they still had these needs to portray things and fix them into the canvas. They were like, let's bring this specific moment, landscape, and a person in this canvas so that it stays forever. The technique that they used to create something that we see today blows my mind.
I feel the same way about architecture. When I see things such as the Giza pyramid and other old crazy architectures it’s too cool, just beyond our imagination.
There’s actually a myth that the Giza Pyramid was built by aliens as if humans couldn't have built them before all these complex machines existed. 👽
Haha, I could buy that. It came to the point that we need to ask you the last question. What’s your piece of wisdom that you want to pass over to juniors and young creatives?
Find your place. That's the only thing I can tell anyone. I personally struggled a lot with that. I left my loved last workplace because I didn't have my place there even though I was all over the place. Everybody would come to me asking for advice yet no one actually acknowledged how far my capabilities could stretch out. That's why I changed my job and came to Circus. I know what I do here, and I can be a pain in the ass sometimes. But I'm okay with that, my boss is fine with that, so I'm going to be a pain in the ass for the things that I believe that we have to do as a company.
What you just said really hit us right now since our internship has already passed the halfway point and we're trying to find our place in the company.
Right. It's like working in a factory. If you are in charge of assembling something, you have to be there to do it. That's your place. You have to know what role you're playing. Because if not, you're just doing some work. There's no difference, it can be anyone and it can be anyplace. So take the time to really think about it.
I (Ljuba) have a personal question as a very last question for you. As you combine culture and a sweet spot for brands, do you have any method that you use?
I have a freestyle methodology for you guys. As a planner, the most important quality is to understand analogies between two movements that are happening inside the cultural climate and a business.
A cassette tape does a very similar thing, sound waves meet the magnet, and the magnet imprints the same expression in an analog way into the tape. It's about translating culture into a brand logic and finding doors for brands to join cultural conversations. Finding those spots, those doors, has to be a smooth process. If a brand is adding its voice to a cultural movement, but that voice can't be analog to the voice of the movement, then it's just not right. My task is to understand whether this is possible, and how to make it real. So what I try to do is to find these two efforts that need to be combined.
I (Ljuba) really like comparing stuff from ordinary life, it shows your philosophy.
True. For me, everything is already explained. It's like mathematics and nature. It's already explained and expressed somewhere. We just have to be willing to discover it.