The tournament rewards on the list of nearby tournaments might be inconsistent and it's intentional. The game first determines the reward for the tournament when it is created. The prize is based on the number of nobles currently present in the city. It is then redefined either when the tournament is automatically resolved without a player participating, or when the player joins the tournament. In both cases, the game checks the current number of able nobles in the settlement and, if it differs from the one that was at the time the tournament was created, a new prize is selected. The reasoning behind this is that prizes are determined based on the number of nobles who are going to participate in the tournament - the higher it is, the more chances for more valuable prizes, and at some point the pool from which the prizes are selected is changed to "elite" one, which allows you to win some of the best items in the game (literally so if prize scaling is enabled and player's clan reached tier 6).
While I personally think that rerolling prizes is based on good reasons, I understand that it can be frustrating, so as of version 1.1.0 of the mod, there is a setting that determines whether and in what cases the tournament prize should be redefined. Check the 'Prize reroll condition' setting, it can be set to one of the following preferences:
Never - Tournament prizes are only set when the tournament is created and never change afterwards.
When prize tier can be improved - Tournament prizes will be overridden if the current number of able nobles in the settlement at the time the player joins the tournament or it's automatically resolved is higher than when the tournament was created, and this allows the prize to be selected from the elite reward pool. This is the recommended setting.
When chances for better prize are improved - Tournament prizes will be overridden if the current number of able nobles in the settlement at the time the player joins the tournament or it's automatically resolved is higher than when the tournament was created, meaning that chances to get more valuable prize are higher.
When situation changed - Tournament prizes will be overridden if the current number of able nobles in the settlement has changed since the tournament was created. This is the vanilla setting.
OK, resent release brings a lot of new features I am personally excited about, so I'd love to give a brief overview.
Arena Practice changes
- First of all, you can now play arena practice matches as any other hero in a party, helping you train them. - Next, I added per-save MCM menu that track each companion or clan member hero and gives you an option to set up preferences for them, that will be used to decide which weapon loadout (among available) they will use on arena. - There are new options to set up what armor will be used and how many AI teams will be in a practice match. Using the later option, you absolutely can go against entire arena if you want! - Last but not least, I added couple new practice modes. Parry practice is exactly what it says it is and may be of help if you want to get better at swordplay. Team practice complements the ideas of the Team tournaments in the Arena and finally gives you the opportunity to fight alongside your teammates in practice matches rather than against them. Please note that it can be very expensive to participate in the Team practice with lots of companions using custom weapon sets, as the default price for choosing weapons is higher than for other practice modes.
Tournament prize changes
- I wanted to add high quality items to tournaments as prizes for a long time, but it used to be too difficult to implement. Well, in v1.2.0 TW changed it and now it's totally possible, so I did it! Personally, I always thought that it would make a lot of sense for Tournaments to award high quality equipment, and the possibility to spawn really expensive high-quality items should keep Tournaments more attractive in the late game. - Cultural restrictions. I find it odd that in vanilla normal prizes are restricted to settlement's culture, but elite prizes are not. Maybe it's because there was very limited pool of elite prizes. So, I added an option to restrict Tournament prizes to settlement culture. Hopefully that will give more reasons to travel more widely in the early- and mid-game.
Word of caution
While I was working on this release, I helped Aragas find several issues with ButterLib and MCM and he fixed them. So, I strongly recommend you update to the latest versions of BUTR stack in order to avoid potential problems.
To fellow modders
For team Arena Practice I've added a new dummy character for the standard game cultures. See the spnpccharacters.xml file in the mod files for reference. The reason and idea behind this were that some of the standard practice attires could not be painted properly by the game. I didn't have a way to filter them by item flags, and I didn't want to change the default outfit sets for standard arena practice modes. So, I ended up adding gear_team_practice_dummy_ character models to moderate the standard team practice clothing. Consider using it when adding new cultures to the game if you have cultural armor that you use for practice dummies and that cannot be painted with banner colors. If gear_team_practice_dummy_ is not found for a culture, the default dummy is used.
Hi, I would like to know what reward for winning against one(!) fighter is considered correct. If we win in the arena, we get the main prize. Like in vanilla.
Plus, the mod has an additional reward for quantity. They are given out together, not one instead of the other. This is very good :)
But if you don't win, or win a number not specified in the code, the questions begin.
1-2 victories (separately or in a row) - we get... "nothing". Which is strange. It would be logical to give out 1-2 coin per fighter. Because even vanilla: 3 fighters = 5 dinars. That is, 1.67(~2) coins for each.
Rounding down, for example, 1 fighter - 1 coin, 2 fighters - 3 coins, 3 fighters - 5 coins.
Although it is more logical to put X coins for each, if the number of defeated enemies is less than Y. And allow changing the numbers in the mod settings.
For example, we get 2 coins for each if we win less than 10. Because 5 (6) coins for 3, or 10 (12) coins for 6. The same rule works.
But the price of victory changes if we win 10+. It is already 25 coins, not 20 coins (as with 3 or 6 fighters). We can accrue 2.5-3 coins per fighter (conditionally 25-30 coins for 10 frags).
If 3, it is easier and more logical to count. And also combines with the next tier, 60 coins for 20. 3 to 1.
But there is a new level in the mod, 35 fighters - 150 coins, not 165 coins. Or 30 fighters and 150 coins. As with the 3 to 1 rule.
That's why I'm in doubt whether to put 1, 2, or 3 coins for each fighter.
If we solve the problem in a simple way, then we can simply issue 2 coins for each defeated fighter. For example, add a gold reward, next to the experience accrual. As I screwed in, to test the idea. Fortunately, the sources are open and there is no need to copy the text from the dll to the new mod folder, reassign outdated names and only then proceed to the edits themselves.
The remaining 0.5-1 coins per fighter are conditionally issued as rewards for overcoming significant numbers. 3 and 6 fighters: 0 (in the settings). We will receive the required coins for each victory over a fighter. 10: +5 (=25-20). 20: +20 (60-40). 35: +80 (150-70).
Unfortunately, in this option, the details of the rewards between significant numbers are also lost, after the first two milestones. But it's easy to do: 3 count per unit and 0 coin in other steps :)
And ideally, of course, I would like to receive a reward for hits that did not kill fighters. Depending on the HP taken and the reward for this frag. With the final sum rounded down, in the final calculation.
That is, if we take 50% of the HP from a fighter and immediately lose, we will receive 50% of the 2 coins that we would have received for defeating him.
After all, experience is also awarded for hits that do not knock the enemy off their feet. The same mechanics (or similar) can be used for a cash prize.
For example, we won in the arena (250 coins), defeated 15 fighters (another 30-45 coins, because 2-3 coins for each), inflicted a total of 500% HP damage (another 10-15 coins). Total: 290-310, not 275 (like in mod), or only 250 (like in vanilla). But it's hard to do, so I'll understand if the reward is only "like now".
First of all, you don't get a reward per every fighter defeated, you get rewarded for reaching certain milestones / thresholds. Think of it as a reward for an act of valor that inspired the viewers, not a bounty. Same as in vanilla, actually. The only difference is that you can get those rewards on top of champion prize with some extra options that are covered in mod settings.
I am not interested in changing the system or adding monetary rewards for hits. In Expansive and Team practice, you are kind of rewarded for both hits and kills with troop experience. It makes sense as you can learn from both, but I don't see why arena master should reward fighters for hitting each other. If anything, they'd probably go broke doing it. Don't forget that lore-wise you are paid a cut of what they make from viewer bets and donations.
Okay. Let's look at different points of view. 1. The player spends time, performs successful actions, but does not receive the full reward if the threshold is not crossed. We beat 19 opponents? We get money. But like for 10. Because one was missing. Is that logical? O_o
This can be fixed in a primitive way, adding new limits between the existing ones. The game has 3, 6, 10, 20. Plus 35. We edit it so that there are every three fighters. 3, 6, 9 (instead of 10), 12, 15, 18, 21 (instead of 20), etc. My experience shows that when fighting 40 (vanilla), it is rare to defeat more than 30 opponents. Therefore, personally, I would stop at this number. 2. Arena combat is serious. Received wounds remain. Like in a real fight. Some heroes can die when receiving fatal damage. Including the main character. Then we are paid for the risk. 3. Arena masters are paid for the show. Then the reward should not just be for the number of victories, but also for how they were achieved. For example, one fighter remained standing in the corner, waited until one enemy remained and heroically defeated him, receiving the main prize. It is strange, but it can be done this way. Exploit. Another fighter immediately ran into battle, delivered powerful, effective blows, smashed blocks, shields, kicked opponents... Even if he lost, he fought very well. He is paid for the show, and not for the fight itself. Moreover, this fee for audience sympathy can be greater than the prize for a simple victory by waiting. 4. One fight per day. And even a prize fight, I mean, with a prize, can be held only once in one city. Or even nearby cities, which can be reached in one day. recalls the essence of tournaments. Other fights, after the first, do not have a cash prize at all - only experience. This will also be logical. Like in a tournament :) But if you are happy with the practice of passive rats getting more than furious fighters, I will be surprised. Otherwise, you wouldn't have introduced the rule, the main prize + the number of defeated fighters.
--- In Expansive, we get a reward x2 (twice as high as in a normal arena). That's why I put it off until later. First, a simple case, then a complex one :)
Yes, this is a way to reward active players and not those hidning in a corner most of the match. No, I don't see any problem with the fact that you don't get more for defeating 19 fighters compared to defeating 10 of them. You would get more by defeating 20, but was not able to get there. Better luck next time! And no, I'm not going to limit the number of practice fights per day or the number of fights that can be rewarded with a prize.
Okay, we've sorted that out. Adding new boundaries to give out rewards in a more balanced way is not hard for me :)
--- Now a question about equipment. Spear and shield. A character with a polearm becomes a piece of cake. Just walk around him and hit him. He can't hit us. Unless by unlucky. If two spearmen meet, they stand there for a long time and try to hurt each other. It's really long. There is no such problem with other weapons. This is not normal, is it? There are spears in the game that can do more than just stab. You can put them in the arena and the problem will disappear. A less obvious problem is an archer with a two-handed weapon, or a shield + sword. Bows in the game are too effective. Better than any other weapon, including crossbows, which were very strong in Mount and Blade 1, due to the imbalance of stats. By the way, the archer started with a knife there, which cannot be used to block. At least some balance. But then you can still pick up a stronger melee weapon and knock everyone down again without any problems. Similarly - with the presence of a horse, or its absence. The difference in the effectiveness of the character is much higher than the price of the horse, compared to other equipment of the same cost and tier. An imbalance that makes it easier to win than intended in other cases, which is not good.
Weapon loadouts are culture specific. I am not going to mess with them. There are cultures with swingable spears present in the arena practice matches.
Yes, weapons vary in effectiveness in different scenarios, but at least they allow you to train all the skills you want, which is their main purpose in the arena. Also, effectiveness is subjective and depends heavily on the skills of both the player and the character. I see that you rate bows very highly, while I personally hate starting with them. And I know for a fact that there are players who prefer to play with spears and other polearms.
There are no horses in arena practice matches. I am fine with that.
hi, can you add an option where I can determine how many enemies I have to kill for the individual valor rewards. and maybe more than 5 levels? I play with 500 opponents in the expansive arena and I think the last level is already reached at 35 kills.
I was looking into it when I developed expancive practice initially, and IIRC, there was something complicating about this, so it's a lot of work for a relatively small change, but I'll think about it.
If I do this, it most likely will not be set in the settings, but will be based on certain pre-determined percentages of all participants, rounded to the nearest multiple of 5.
when i join the tournament as a team in my own town. the king of vlandia "Derthert" who is in my prison, somehow managed to join the tournament and lead his team got to the final round💀😭😭
thank you very much for your mod. You have created a fantastic tool which considerably improves the gameplay. Imho, it's a become an essential. I just wanted to report something which may be an issue and may have been already mentioned: Sometimes in the arena team fights my team seem to disappear, at least I can't find anyone. I find myself alone, though the game saying that there are team members around, I then just run around the arena until a group of my team gets spawned somewhere. I suppose this may be caused by the native code whose spawning procedures doesn't work properly, so that would be an issue you can't address I suppose. Anyway, I just wanted to report it and was curious if the issue is known. Thanks again for your work.
I had to rewrite most of spawning code for the team arena practice. So, it's probably not a native issue. What probably happens is that all the nearest to you spawn points are occupied by other teams and thus your team has no choice but to spawn elsewhere. I do make an effort to ensure that no two teams are using same spawn point in a single spawn wave. And I try not to spawn teams so that they are right on top of some other teams.
Absolutely in love with this mod and it is by far my favourite improvement to the game by a mile.. I love joining team arenas with my companions as it just feels great from a roleplay and gameplay perspective and the number one thing that annoyed me is fixed.. YOU GET PAID WHEN YOU WIN A TOURNAMENT.. i mean seriously why is this not in base? i don't even care about the prize as much as doing tourny loops with my fighter companions becoming rich as gladiators.. Thanks so much for giving me a reason to play the game (I was close to quitting before this due to how trash arena was)
4/5 times during a tournament any female notables participating spawn naked - I'm not sure if this is a mod conflict or something messed up with the loadouts...
It's how notables are in the game, some of them don't have combat gear. You can disable notables in tournament in mod settings or you can use balanced tournament armor to force the game give them something to wear.
Game crashes when setting weapons for automatic loadouts. A part of me feels like I might have just picked two conflicting settings of the mod but I'm not sure what.
582 comments
The tournament rewards on the list of nearby tournaments might be inconsistent and it's intentional. The game first determines the reward for the tournament when it is created. The prize is based on the number of nobles currently present in the city. It is then redefined either when the tournament is automatically resolved without a player participating, or when the player joins the tournament. In both cases, the game checks the current number of able nobles in the settlement and, if it differs from the one that was at the time the tournament was created, a new prize is selected. The reasoning behind this is that prizes are determined based on the number of nobles who are going to participate in the tournament - the higher it is, the more chances for more valuable prizes, and at some point the pool from which the prizes are selected is changed to "elite" one, which allows you to win some of the best items in the game (literally so if prize scaling is enabled and player's clan reached tier 6).
While I personally think that rerolling prizes is based on good reasons, I understand that it can be frustrating, so as of version 1.1.0 of the mod, there is a setting that determines whether and in what cases the tournament prize should be redefined. Check the 'Prize reroll condition' setting, it can be set to one of the following preferences:
OK, resent release brings a lot of new features I am personally excited about, so I'd love to give a brief overview.
- First of all, you can now play arena practice matches as any other hero in a party, helping you train them.
- Next, I added per-save MCM menu that track each companion or clan member hero and gives you an option to set up preferences for them, that will be used to decide which weapon loadout (among available) they will use on arena.
- There are new options to set up what armor will be used and how many AI teams will be in a practice match. Using the later option, you absolutely can go against entire arena if you want!
- Last but not least, I added couple new practice modes. Parry practice is exactly what it says it is and may be of help if you want to get better at swordplay. Team practice complements the ideas of the Team tournaments in the Arena and finally gives you the opportunity to fight alongside your teammates in practice matches rather than against them. Please note that it can be very expensive to participate in the Team practice with lots of companions using custom weapon sets, as the default price for choosing weapons is higher than for other practice modes.
- I wanted to add high quality items to tournaments as prizes for a long time, but it used to be too difficult to implement. Well, in v1.2.0 TW changed it and now it's totally possible, so I did it! Personally, I always thought that it would make a lot of sense for Tournaments to award high quality equipment, and the possibility to spawn really expensive high-quality items should keep Tournaments more attractive in the late game.
- Cultural restrictions. I find it odd that in vanilla normal prizes are restricted to settlement's culture, but elite prizes are not. Maybe it's because there was very limited pool of elite prizes. So, I added an option to restrict Tournament prizes to settlement culture. Hopefully that will give more reasons to travel more widely in the early- and mid-game.
While I was working on this release, I helped Aragas find several issues with ButterLib and MCM and he fixed them. So, I strongly recommend you update to the latest versions of BUTR stack in order to avoid potential problems.
For team Arena Practice I've added a new dummy character for the standard game cultures. See the spnpccharacters.xml file in the mod files for reference. The reason and idea behind this were that some of the standard practice attires could not be painted properly by the game. I didn't have a way to filter them by item flags, and I didn't want to change the default outfit sets for standard arena practice modes. So, I ended up adding
gear_team_practice_dummy_
character models to moderate the standard team practice clothing. Consider using it when adding new cultures to the game if you have cultural armor that you use for practice dummies and that cannot be painted with banner colors. If gear_team_practice_dummy_ is not found for a culture, the default dummy is used.If we win in the arena, we get the main prize. Like in vanilla.
Plus, the mod has an additional reward for quantity.
They are given out together, not one instead of the other. This is very good :)
But if you don't win, or win a number not specified in the code, the questions begin.
1-2 victories (separately or in a row) - we get... "nothing". Which is strange.
It would be logical to give out 1-2 coin per fighter.
Because even vanilla: 3 fighters = 5 dinars. That is, 1.67(~2) coins for each.
Rounding down, for example, 1 fighter - 1 coin, 2 fighters - 3 coins, 3 fighters - 5 coins.
Although it is more logical to put X coins for each, if the number of defeated enemies is less than Y.
And allow changing the numbers in the mod settings.
For example, we get 2 coins for each if we win less than 10. Because 5 (6) coins for 3, or 10 (12) coins for 6. The same rule works.
But the price of victory changes if we win 10+.
It is already 25 coins, not 20 coins (as with 3 or 6 fighters).
We can accrue 2.5-3 coins per fighter (conditionally 25-30 coins for 10 frags).
If 3, it is easier and more logical to count. And also combines with the next tier, 60 coins for 20. 3 to 1.
But there is a new level in the mod, 35 fighters - 150 coins, not 165 coins. Or 30 fighters and 150 coins. As with the 3 to 1 rule.
That's why I'm in doubt whether to put 1, 2, or 3 coins for each fighter.
If we solve the problem in a simple way, then we can simply issue 2 coins for each defeated fighter.
For example, add a gold reward, next to the experience accrual. As I screwed in, to test the idea.
Fortunately, the sources are open and there is no need to copy the text from the dll to the new mod folder, reassign outdated names and only then proceed to the edits themselves.
The remaining 0.5-1 coins per fighter are conditionally issued as rewards for overcoming significant numbers.
3 and 6 fighters: 0 (in the settings). We will receive the required coins for each victory over a fighter.
10: +5 (=25-20).
20: +20 (60-40).
35: +80 (150-70).
Unfortunately, in this option, the details of the rewards between significant numbers are also lost, after the first two milestones. But it's easy to do: 3 count per unit and 0 coin in other steps :)
And ideally, of course, I would like to receive a reward for hits that did not kill fighters.
Depending on the HP taken and the reward for this frag. With the final sum rounded down, in the final calculation.
That is, if we take 50% of the HP from a fighter and immediately lose, we will receive 50% of the 2 coins that we would have received for defeating him.
After all, experience is also awarded for hits that do not knock the enemy off their feet. The same mechanics (or similar) can be used for a cash prize.
For example, we won in the arena (250 coins), defeated 15 fighters (another 30-45 coins, because 2-3 coins for each), inflicted a total of 500% HP damage (another 10-15 coins). Total: 290-310, not 275 (like in mod), or only 250 (like in vanilla).
But it's hard to do, so I'll understand if the reward is only "like now".
I am not interested in changing the system or adding monetary rewards for hits. In Expansive and Team practice, you are kind of rewarded for both hits and kills with troop experience. It makes sense as you can learn from both, but I don't see why arena master should reward fighters for hitting each other. If anything, they'd probably go broke doing it. Don't forget that lore-wise you are paid a cut of what they make from viewer bets and donations.
1. The player spends time, performs successful actions, but does not receive the full reward if the threshold is not crossed.
We beat 19 opponents? We get money. But like for 10. Because one was missing. Is that logical? O_o
This can be fixed in a primitive way, adding new limits between the existing ones.
The game has 3, 6, 10, 20. Plus 35.
We edit it so that there are every three fighters.
3, 6, 9 (instead of 10), 12, 15, 18, 21 (instead of 20), etc.
My experience shows that when fighting 40 (vanilla), it is rare to defeat more than 30 opponents. Therefore, personally, I would stop at this number.
2. Arena combat is serious. Received wounds remain. Like in a real fight. Some heroes can die when receiving fatal damage. Including the main character.
Then we are paid for the risk.
3. Arena masters are paid for the show.
Then the reward should not just be for the number of victories, but also for how they were achieved.
For example, one fighter remained standing in the corner, waited until one enemy remained and heroically defeated him, receiving the main prize. It is strange, but it can be done this way. Exploit.
Another fighter immediately ran into battle, delivered powerful, effective blows, smashed blocks, shields, kicked opponents... Even if he lost, he fought very well. He is paid for the show, and not for the fight itself. Moreover, this fee for audience sympathy can be greater than the prize for a simple victory by waiting.
4. One fight per day. And even a prize fight, I mean, with a prize, can be held only once in one city. Or even nearby cities, which can be reached in one day. recalls the essence of tournaments. Other fights, after the first, do not have a cash prize at all - only experience. This will also be logical. Like in a tournament :)
But if you are happy with the practice of passive rats getting more than furious fighters, I will be surprised. Otherwise, you wouldn't have introduced the rule, the main prize + the number of defeated fighters.
---
In Expansive, we get a reward x2 (twice as high as in a normal arena). That's why I put it off until later. First, a simple case, then a complex one :)
No, I don't see any problem with the fact that you don't get more for defeating 19 fighters compared to defeating 10 of them. You would get more by defeating 20, but was not able to get there. Better luck next time!
And no, I'm not going to limit the number of practice fights per day or the number of fights that can be rewarded with a prize.
---
Now a question about equipment. Spear and shield. A character with a polearm becomes a piece of cake. Just walk around him and hit him. He can't hit us. Unless by unlucky.
If two spearmen meet, they stand there for a long time and try to hurt each other. It's really long. There is no such problem with other weapons.
This is not normal, is it?
There are spears in the game that can do more than just stab. You can put them in the arena and the problem will disappear.
A less obvious problem is an archer with a two-handed weapon, or a shield + sword.
Bows in the game are too effective. Better than any other weapon, including crossbows, which were very strong in Mount and Blade 1, due to the imbalance of stats.
By the way, the archer started with a knife there, which cannot be used to block. At least some balance.
But then you can still pick up a stronger melee weapon and knock everyone down again without any problems.
Similarly - with the presence of a horse, or its absence. The difference in the effectiveness of the character is much higher than the price of the horse, compared to other equipment of the same cost and tier. An imbalance that makes it easier to win than intended in other cases, which is not good.
Yes, weapons vary in effectiveness in different scenarios, but at least they allow you to train all the skills you want, which is their main purpose in the arena. Also, effectiveness is subjective and depends heavily on the skills of both the player and the character. I see that you rate bows very highly, while I personally hate starting with them. And I know for a fact that there are players who prefer to play with spears and other polearms.
There are no horses in arena practice matches. I am fine with that.
I just wanted to report something which may be an issue and may have been already mentioned: Sometimes in the arena team fights my team seem to disappear, at least I can't find anyone. I find myself alone, though the game saying that there are team members around, I then just run around the arena until a group of my team gets spawned somewhere. I suppose this may be caused by the native code whose spawning procedures doesn't work properly, so that would be an issue you can't address I suppose. Anyway, I just wanted to report it and was curious if the issue is known. Thanks again for your work.
https://report.butr.link/E65E8D
Thanks for the mod!
I'm getting this crash https://report.butr.link/D3DA7C
RBM Arena is disabled. It's at one of the blue guys' cities Balgrad.
Also make sure you've updated all the dependency mods.