Wildfires are getting more extreme. And so is the need for more firefighters
JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Extreme wildfires doubled worldwide over the last two decades according to a new study of NASA satellite data. They're more frequent and more intense than they were 20 years ago, and that is in large part because of rising temperatures. 2023 had the most intense wildfires ever recorded. It also had the hottest temperatures on record. These are the kind of stats that make the term wildfire season feel, well, a little passe.
JEFF MARSOLAIS: It's not a fire season anymore. It's a fire year.
SUMMERS: Jeff Marsolais is the associate deputy chief of the U.S. Forest Service. That's the agency responsible for preventing and responding to wildland fires on nearly 200 million acres of U.S. land.
MARSOLAIS: Just like we saw in Texas earlier in the spring, where we've seen in Denver in December and January, Wildfires can pop up and cause significant impact in almost any part of our country given the right conditions.
SUMMERS: You'd think if the wildfire crisis is getting worse, there'd be more and more firefighters in place to meet that demand. But at the U.S. Forest Service, adequate staffing has been a huge challenge. Forty-five percent of its permanent employees left over the last three years, according to the agency's own data. Marsolais says there are two big reasons why.
MARSOLAIS: It's very dangerous and difficult work. Let's start with that. There's growing body of evidence of around things like exposure to smoke and the potential long-term impact of being around carcinogens and those sorts of things that impact somebody's choice to be a part of this line of work.
SUMMERS: And then there's the issue of wages. Firefighters at the Forest Service risk their lives for a base pay of $15 an hour. That is roughly the same as what a fast-food worker makes on average.
MARSOLAIS: We've even seen things like the cost of gasoline prices going up. You know, many of these firefighters are driving 30 to 50 miles to get to their remote fire stations if they haven't been able to secure housing in a very rural community. And that kind of thing can have a real impact on the overall sustainability of the position, their willingness to continue to do the very difficult, challenging work for not very much pay.
SUMMERS: Despite these factors, the U.S. Forest Service says it just hit its recruiting goals for the summer season, hiring over 11,000 wildland firefighters nationwide. Even still, the agency says the number of firefighters it now has isn't nearly enough to address America's wildfires.
MARSOLAIS: It doesn't fully staff every module across the country. We're just not funded to be able to do that within the current budget environment.
SUMMERS: Here's a little irony. As agencies like the U.S. Forest Service raise alarm about firefighter shortages, there's also a whole group of people who are trained to fight fires, who are struggling to get jobs in the field.
ROYAL RAMEY: You have certifications that you need and then the application process, understanding how to present yourself and even talk about that background question, right?
SUMMERS: Royal Ramey learned how to fight fires while he was incarcerated in California. Once he got out of prison, it took him 11 months to get a job as a firefighter, even though there were plenty of jobs out there. Now he's helping other formerly incarcerated people who face similar barriers to become career firefighters. CONSIDER THIS - the wildfire crisis is getting worse. We speak to someone who has a way to bring more people to the fight.
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SUMMERS: From NPR, I'm Juana Summers.
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SUMMERS: It's CONSIDER THIS FROM NPR. California has long relied on its prison population to fight wildfires. It's one of at least 14 states that sets up fire camps for incarcerated people to train to fight fires. It's an alternative sentencing option, an opportunity to serve the public as wildfires become increasingly urgent. And to some who attend fire camp, it's a pathway to a life calling.
But building a career as a firefighter after leaving prison is not easy. Just ask Royal Ramey. He's the co-founder and CEO of the Forestry And Fire Recruitment Program. That's a nonprofit based in California that helps formerly incarcerated firefighters find employment. But years before Ramey started his nonprofit, he was incarcerated, attended fire camp and fell in love with being a firefighter. I told him to take me back over a decade ago to that moment.
RAMEY: I was incarcerated in a fire camp for about 20 months. It was funny 'cause the experience definitely wasn't easy. I really didn't know what I was getting myself into. All I know is that I wanted to get closer to home and be in a dormitory setting where you can get, you know, good food, and, you know, I can be able to see my family every weekend. I didn't really know, like, you know, what wildland firefighting was. But once I got there, as time went on, I actually embraced it, and I fell in love with it. But it really helped grow me as the person I am today. And it's definitely a dangerous job - right? - but that kind of thing kind of, you know, thrilled me being young, active male, you know, growing up and, you know, chasing the adrenaline rush when it comes to, you know, being a hero and actually going out and, like, slaying a dragon, as we call it.
SUMMERS: I understand that you were released from prison in 2014, and when you were, you began pursuing a professional career in firefighting. What was that process like and how long did it take for you to find a job?
RAMEY: (Laughter) How long do you got? 'Cause we could talk about this all day.
SUMMERS: Oh, man.
RAMEY: (Laughter) No, so honestly, it took about 11 months to figure it out. How I felt was, like, either I'm going to be a wildland firefighter or I'm going to, you know, couch surf for whatever at my mom's house. Like, it was either that or nothing else. So I was really determined on figuring it out. I've got, fortunately, some good people in my life that I came across that really believed in me and seen the hunger, and knew that I really wanted to pursue a career in fire, and they helped guide me. It was definitely a challenge. It was a lot of - it was really the lack of knowledge, like, understanding, like, OK, where do I go? Like...
SUMMERS: Yeah.
RAMEY: ...You have certifications that you need and then the application process, understanding how to present yourself. And even talk about that background question, right? Like, that's definitely a thing as well.
SUMMERS: You co-founded the Forestry And Fire Recruitment Program in order to help other formerly incarcerated firefighters build careers. You've talked so much about the challenge of navigating that landscape of finding a job. I wonder, how does your program help people tackle these barriers?
RAMEY: We help navigate multiple things. So we give you the certifications you need in order for you to be able to gain an entry-level position with the Forest Service, Cal Fire or any other wildland agency. And then we also help you with the job application process. And then we also help with, you know, tech literacy 'cause I notice a lot of folks that when they come out of prison, it's kind of hard to navigate websites.
SUMMERS: Yeah.
RAMEY: We also have a social services department where we help with, you know, folks getting their IDs and getting their Social Security cards. We focus on the expungement process. So Gavin Newsom passed a law, I think, about four years ago now, and what it pretty much does is help people that come out of California Conservation camps being able to get their record expunged, which is amazing because it provides an opportunity where folks can, you know, apply to not only just fire careers but, like, you know, they can have a brand-new life.
SUMMERS: I just want to pull back and talk big picture for a second. You first started pursuing a firefighting career about 10 years ago, and I'm just curious, as you look at the field, what has changed? Do you think it's any easier today for formerly incarcerated firefighters in the State of California to find jobs in the field than it was when you were getting started?
RAMEY: Honestly, it is. I think that law helped elevate the cry out. But I think also, too, some of the firefighters understand that folks that come out of camp have great skills. They understand what it feels like to sleep in dirt, you know, understand the grind of that occupation, right? And I think it's just really the stigma getting around that 'cause of the, you know, labor shortages that we have here in California has really put us in a position where we need all hands on deck, right? And, you know, we have a program where we vet folks out. We try to pick people that's serious about the career and wanting to, you know, change their life, and they understand that firefighting is not a 9 to 5.
SUMMERS: No.
RAMEY: It's a lifestyle. Like, you're a public servant 24/7.
SUMMERS: Are there things about this career that you think might be something that's enticing to folks who have served prison sentences? I guess I'm curious if there is - is it the adrenaline like you were talking about? Is it the public service? Is it something else?
RAMEY: It is definitely those things 'cause it all depends on the person, right? But for me, like, when you're told that you're not this and you're not that and you're a menace to society, like, you the black sheep of the family, you're always in trouble. It's all these negative connotations that's constantly, like, bombarding you throughout your life because of the choices that you make or whatever the case may be, right? So when it gets flipped and say, wow, like, you're a hero, like, you're actually contributing to the - to folks in the community. And when you walk in a store and you have your uniform on, it's one - those are one of the best feelings I ever had in my life when people come to you and say, thank you for your service, or, you know what? I will pay for - like, let me pay for you, you know, your drink or whatever, your food.
And you don't got to say nothing. You just walk in the room and people respect you and appreciate you. And that's something that you never had in your life, it's really - it's powerful. It's inspiring. It makes you feel like you the man, you know, like, or even the woman, like, you feel so validated - right? - as a person that is wanted, that is desired and that's loved and appreciated, you know? And it's pretty amazing just making that transition from being someone who society looked down upon, you know, and now having a honorable career.
SUMMERS: I want to turn the conversation, if I can, to climate because we know that as global temperatures are rising, wildfires are burning more acres of land and they're lasting longer, which, of course, means there's a greater demand for people to fight fires, and as agencies like the U.S. Forest Service have reported, there's a chronic shortage of people who are willing to do it. So I wonder, how do you square the high demand for firefighters with the fact that there are a lot of people who want to make a career out of this and can't figure out how to do so?
RAMEY: That's a great question. We know that, you know, we need bodies. We need folks that can be able to, you know, get in a position to help this crisis. We've got to look at all options. You know, we need to expose folks to these jobs and these occupations. So, you know, can - I'm going to be frank.
SUMMERS: OK.
RAMEY: And this is real. And I hate to go with this race thing, but, like, it's a lot of white, Caucasian males in the space.
SUMMERS: Right.
RAMEY: It's a lot of separation in this job. And I think now, if we really want to tackle this issue, we need to educate people on all levels of what this climate crisis is, and then we need to embrace and then integrate, and we need to bring everybody to the table so they can be able to help with the solution. And I think one of the things is, like, giving people the awareness of that and starting programs, utilizing nonprofit organizations, you know, community-based organizations that have these conservation camps, right? Really, like, put money into them so they can get more exposure to this 'cause I think that once folks kind of, like, get exposed to it, then this might spark interest in them. I'm going to be honest with you, like, when I went to prison, I didn't know nothing about the woods.
SUMMERS: Right.
RAMEY: I remember seeing, like, Smokey the Bear on a commercial or two. And that kind of, like, just flew over my head because I didn't even know what it is. Like, when I looked at these red engines that was flying by, you know, when I was growing up, I never seen nobody that looked like me. So that wasn't even a thought, right? I didn't ever think that, like, that could be me one day.
SUMMERS: That's Royal Ramey, the co-founder and CEO of the Forestry And Fire Recruitment Program. Royal, thank you so much.
RAMEY: Yeah, I appreciate you, ma'am. Thank you for having me.
SUMMERS: This episode was produced by Kathryn Fink. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. And one more thing before we go. You can now enjoy the CONSIDER THIS newsletter. We still help you break down a major story of the day, but you'll also get to know our producers and hosts and some moments of joy from the All Things Considered team. You can sign up at npr.org/considerthisnewsletter.
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SUMMERS: It's CONSIDER THIS FROM NPR. I'm Juana Summers.
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