SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The headlines from last night's presidential debate are all focused on President Biden's stumbles and former President Trump's lies. One candidate not on the stage, independent candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. - though he did hold his own livestream where he responded to the same questions as repeated by John Stossel, formerly of ABC and Fox News.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
JOHN STOSSEL: To give you the same question, Mr. Kennedy, should there be any limit on a late-term abortion?
ROBERT F KENNEDY JR: Yeah, I - you know, I believe it should be limited at late-term - should be limited.
DETROW: The former Democrat has been polling around 10% in national polls. Both the Biden and Trump campaigns are concerned he could play a major role as a spoiler, especially in a climate where presidential races are regularly decided by tens of thousands of voters in a handful of states. Kennedy has criticized CNN and the two major parties for not putting him on the stage and said, in a recent statement, our last two presidents are restricting voters from choosing anyone other than themselves. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. joins us now.
Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
KENNEDY: Thank you for having me, Scott.
DETROW: What did you make of last night's debate?
KENNEDY: I thought it was a sad evening for our country. The idea that this was the best that we can produce, I think, is troubling - and troubling not only for our country, but just for the whole cause of democracy and self-governance around the world. Our democracy is supposed to produce the best of the best, but I don't think that that was on display last night.
DETROW: Well, I want to spend the rest of the conversation talking about you and your campaign. Mr. Kennedy, why do you want to be president?
KENNEDY: I want to be president because I think our country is going in the wrong direction, and I don't think that either President Trump or President Biden has the capacity to address the existential issues - issues like the $34 trillion debt, which they played a disproportionate role in running up. President Trump said that he was going to balance the budget and ran up an $8 trillion debt. He spent more money than every president combined from George Washington to George W. Bush, and President Biden is now on track to beat him. And so - and this is what's driving the inflation.
DETROW: Mmm hmm. Can I ask you about debt for a moment? - because you bring it up a lot. You talk a lot about the deficit. Let's just take the - two of the biggest areas of federal spending. Would you cut or modify Social Security? Would you cut Medicare? What would you immediately do to lower the spending? - because you talk about this a lot.
KENNEDY: Oh, I'm going to cut the military budget in a half - down to about $500 billion, during my first four years in office. I'm going to - and...
DETROW: Cut the military budget in half?
KENNEDY: Yeah.
DETROW: Would that zero out any sort of foreign aid for Ukraine or Israel - the two big topics right now?
KENNEDY: It would zero - I will zero out foreign aid for Ukraine. But I'll cut the military budget and close most of the bases abroad. We don't need 800 bases abroad. We should be focused on national defense. I'm going to cut the military budget back to the point we're at the same amount it was in 2024 dollars at the height of the Cold War, during the Eisenhower era. If that was sufficient during the Cold War, it's sufficient today.
DETROW: Some major cuts to the military budget.
KENNEDY: Yeah.
DETROW: Can we talk about the viability of your campaign, though? Tell me what your viable path is to the presidency - because I know you push back on the spoiler term, but I would love for you to tell me right now how you get to 270 votes.
KENNEDY: You mean, how am I going to get on the ballot?
DETROW: No, not just how are you going to be on the ballot - how are you going to be elected president of the United States? 'Cause right now you're on the ballot in eight states - I know that you've submitted signatures in many more states - but tell me how you win 270 electoral votes.
KENNEDY: Well, you know, I'm beating both President Trump and President Biden among young Americans - among everybody under 35.
DETROW: But it's about 10- to 15% in the national polls, which is...
KENNEDY: No, it's about...
DETROW: ...Historically good for a third party, but I don't see, sitting here, a path to winning states. Tell me why I'm wrong.
KENNEDY: Are you - do you want me to finish what I'm saying?
DETROW: I do.
KENNEDY: Yeah. Independents now represent 43% of the electorate, compared to 27% for Democrats, 27% for Republicans. I have greater - and I beat President Trump in that cohort. I have greater favorability ratings than President Trump and President Biden, and - which means people would prefer to vote for me. They're voting for President Trump and President Biden out of fear. So for the same reasons that you're bringing up now, they believe that I can't win. If they believe that I can win, I would win.
Oh, and the demographic that I'm doing poorly in - that is against me - are baby boomers - which, if you think about it, I should be doing best in them, but I'm not. I'm not allowed on the mainstream media that they watch. Baby boomers watch MSNBC, CNN - the networks. They read The Washington Post and The New York Times. And those mainstream media will not allow me on for live interviews.
DETROW: Well, Mr. Kennedy, you're on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED right now...
KENNEDY: This is, yeah.
DETROW: ...For an extended interview.
KENNEDY: And this is the first interview that I've done on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED for many, many years.
DETROW: That actually - but when it comes to your campaign...
KENNEDY: And this is a taped interview, so I don't know what you do with it at the end. I don't know if you're going to play the whole thing. What I'm saying is, the audience that you're reaching - when I can reach them, we have a very, very high conversion rate. If you ask me, how do I win? I win by getting on - ultimately pushing my way onto the networks and reaching that audience.
DETROW: But that actually leads me to another question when it comes to how you are campaigning for president. I'm curious what your strategy is because your campaign and NPR have actually been having a lot of conversations about you and I doing a sit-down interview at one of your upcoming events, but there haven't been that many events scheduled. There's been a long period of time without rallies. What is your plan for the summer into the fall to raise that awareness and to become a competitive campaign like you're talking about?
KENNEDY: Well, I've been on the road for 13 months. I've done hundreds of rallies during that period. I didn't see NPR at any of them. And, you know, we will continue to do rallies. If you want to talk, I'm sure we can arrange a time. But we've focused on now because the rallies are very expensive, and I have to pay my own security. And our strategy, because of the cost of it, has shifted so that now I'm spending more time in Los Angeles or in other places doing media rather than doing the big rallies, which are expensive for us because of the security issues.
DETROW: Do you see last night's debate as an opening for your campaign? What do you see as your pitch for voters who watched both of those candidates and felt frustrated with the choices that they had?
KENNEDY: Yeah, I do. I think anybody who watched that - you know, people - look, even before that, Scott - even before that debate, 70- to 80% of Americans - they didn't want to be forced to choose between President Trump and President Biden. So, you know, I think I offer a choice. People are voting for them out of fear - fear that the other guy will win. If I can persuade people to vote out of hope rather than fear - out of inspiration rather than fear and trepidation - then I'm going to win the election.
DETROW: That's Robert F. Kennedy Jr., independent candidate for president. Thanks so much for joining us.
KENNEDY: Thanks for having me.
(SOUNDBITE OF LADY WRAY SONG, "HOLD ON")
Copyright © 2024 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.