Photo of Meagan Shaw, MS, LPC Intern
Meagan Shaw
LPC Intern, MS
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Life and relationships are full of growth opportunities for all of us. I work in collaboration with clients to increase connection and awareness of core values so they can make lasting change. My style is positive, warm and direct. For those working to find increased joy and stability within themselves and their relationships, we can explore together the areas that feel stuck and ways to increase functioning and open up more choice.
Life and relationships are full of growth opportunities for all of us. I work in collaboration with clients to increase connection and awareness of core values so they can make lasting change. My style is positive, warm and direct. For those working to find increased joy and stability within themselves and their relationships, we can explore together the areas that feel stuck and ways to increase functioning and open up more choice.
(541) 513-7303 View (541) 513-7303
Photo of Kathy J Marshack - Kathy J. Marshack, Ph.D., PhD, Psychologist
Kathy J. Marshack, Ph.D.
Psychologist, PhD
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
Waitlist for new clients
I am Dr. Kathy Marshack, psychologist and author. My credentials go back decades including a Master’s Degree in Social Work and a Doctorate in Psychology. I've trained with the best too. But as valuable as my education, training and experience are, I also know that each one of you is as unique and special as your fingerprints. I want to help you, so I'm offering Online Therapy for Oregon and Washington residents and Online Education appointments for various topics. Check my clinical website to make an appointment with me: www.kmarshack.com. I am not currrently taking new clinical clients at this time.
I am Dr. Kathy Marshack, psychologist and author. My credentials go back decades including a Master’s Degree in Social Work and a Doctorate in Psychology. I've trained with the best too. But as valuable as my education, training and experience are, I also know that each one of you is as unique and special as your fingerprints. I want to help you, so I'm offering Online Therapy for Oregon and Washington residents and Online Education appointments for various topics. Check my clinical website to make an appointment with me: www.kmarshack.com. I am not currrently taking new clinical clients at this time.
(503) 966-4173 View (503) 966-4173
Photo of Tracey Hoffman And Brenda Fowler Lpc - Couples-Inc, PsyD, Psychologist
Couples-Inc
Psychologist, PsyD
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
Waitlist for new clients
We offer Couples Fundamentals Workshops and resources for couples. We are two experienced therapists in Portland, Oregon who are passionate about helping couples learn how to create their best relationship. We offer intimate and informative workshops with direct and active support to help couples create better communication and forge a better connection. Also we each offer couples therapy within our private practices.
We offer Couples Fundamentals Workshops and resources for couples. We are two experienced therapists in Portland, Oregon who are passionate about helping couples learn how to create their best relationship. We offer intimate and informative workshops with direct and active support to help couples create better communication and forge a better connection. Also we each offer couples therapy within our private practices.
(971) 252-7303 View (971) 252-7303
Photo of Stephanie MacDonald, LPC, Licensed Professional Counselor
Stephanie MacDonald
Licensed Professional Counselor, LPC
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Not accepting new clients
Stephanie (she/her) emphasizes a collaborative therapeutic relationship at the core of her practice and works to provide a safe, inviting, and accepting relationship with each of her clients. Stephanie’s approach to counseling is client-centered and strengths-based. She integrates theories such as Interpersonal Neurobiology, Child-Centered Play Therapy, Synergetic Play Therapy, Emotion-Focused Therapy, Humanistic Therapy, and attachment science, and utilizes a feminist and social justice-focused lens. She is a Licensed Professional Counselor, a play therapist, a relationship therapist, and a Certified Autism Clinical Specialist.
Stephanie (she/her) emphasizes a collaborative therapeutic relationship at the core of her practice and works to provide a safe, inviting, and accepting relationship with each of her clients. Stephanie’s approach to counseling is client-centered and strengths-based. She integrates theories such as Interpersonal Neurobiology, Child-Centered Play Therapy, Synergetic Play Therapy, Emotion-Focused Therapy, Humanistic Therapy, and attachment science, and utilizes a feminist and social justice-focused lens. She is a Licensed Professional Counselor, a play therapist, a relationship therapist, and a Certified Autism Clinical Specialist.
(503) 295-9764 View (503) 295-9764
Photo of Breena Beck, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Breena Beck
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
I support individuals and couples dealing with anxiety, depression, life transitions, & relationship challenges. I’m a trauma-informed therapist & I utilize various therapeutic interventions including EMDR, Emotionally Focused Therapy, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, & Mindfulness. I support clients as they learn to allow emotions to inform rather than control. I am committed to creating a space that is inclusive & affirming to all who seek support.
I support individuals and couples dealing with anxiety, depression, life transitions, & relationship challenges. I’m a trauma-informed therapist & I utilize various therapeutic interventions including EMDR, Emotionally Focused Therapy, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, & Mindfulness. I support clients as they learn to allow emotions to inform rather than control. I am committed to creating a space that is inclusive & affirming to all who seek support.
(503) 506-6276 View (503) 506-6276
Photo of Jill Hsieh, MA, PCA, Pre-Licensed Professional
Jill Hsieh
Pre-Licensed Professional, MA, PCA
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Life is full of struggles and surprises, and we often feel trapped and have no hope. It is common to have negative thoughts and beliefs, to experience lack of motivation and burn out when we try to move through our life. Struggling with your thoughts and feelings can really affect your daily life. “It is okay to not feel okay!” Emotions and thoughts are two very complicated things and a lot of the time they tangle together. With patience, empathy, authenticity, and wanting to discover depth with the client, people can see more clearly from their past and have a goal for the future.
Life is full of struggles and surprises, and we often feel trapped and have no hope. It is common to have negative thoughts and beliefs, to experience lack of motivation and burn out when we try to move through our life. Struggling with your thoughts and feelings can really affect your daily life. “It is okay to not feel okay!” Emotions and thoughts are two very complicated things and a lot of the time they tangle together. With patience, empathy, authenticity, and wanting to discover depth with the client, people can see more clearly from their past and have a goal for the future.
(503) 714-9387 View (503) 714-9387
Photo of Danette C. Gillespie-Otto, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Danette C. Gillespie-Otto
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Communion is being together and speaking the language of the heart. It is a spiritual and psychological journey with a companion who cares. If you are seeking peace, clarity, deeper meaning in life, more satisfaction in your relationships, greater creativity, and improved well-being, I am here to assist you on your journey of wellness. I specialize in working with Women of Color. If anxiety, grief, past trauma, racism, internalized oppression, cultural dislocation, workplace or relationship stress prevent you from being who you want to be, I am here to help you find your true Self.
Communion is being together and speaking the language of the heart. It is a spiritual and psychological journey with a companion who cares. If you are seeking peace, clarity, deeper meaning in life, more satisfaction in your relationships, greater creativity, and improved well-being, I am here to assist you on your journey of wellness. I specialize in working with Women of Color. If anxiety, grief, past trauma, racism, internalized oppression, cultural dislocation, workplace or relationship stress prevent you from being who you want to be, I am here to help you find your true Self.
(503) 766-5783 x482 View (503) 766-5783 x482
Photo of Megan Beug, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Megan Beug
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
3 Endorsed
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
Searching for a therapist can often feel like a daunting task. My goal is to ensure that my clients get the most out of their treatment by creating an environment which allows them to feel safe and comfortable. I strive to facilitate an increase in self-awareness, insight and self-care. Exploring life experiences, both past and present, is crucial to the process of identifying unhealthy patterns in thoughts and behaviors which often lead to symptoms of anxiety and depression. I believe that supportive guidance can help alleviate symptoms and allow space for positive change and personal growth.
Searching for a therapist can often feel like a daunting task. My goal is to ensure that my clients get the most out of their treatment by creating an environment which allows them to feel safe and comfortable. I strive to facilitate an increase in self-awareness, insight and self-care. Exploring life experiences, both past and present, is crucial to the process of identifying unhealthy patterns in thoughts and behaviors which often lead to symptoms of anxiety and depression. I believe that supportive guidance can help alleviate symptoms and allow space for positive change and personal growth.
(503) 386-0903 View (503) 386-0903
Photo of Sage Freeburg, MA, CSWA
Sage Freeburg
Clinical Social Work Associate, MA, CSWA
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Waitlist for new clients
Sage believes that healing begins in relationship. She hopes to provide a welcoming therapeutic space based on compassion, acceptance, and client autonomy. Sage trusts in the innate wisdom of each child, adult, and family, and seeks to collaborate with clients as they move through the ever-shifting circumstances of life. She recognizes that healing is different for each individual, and that the healing process is informed by our cultures, social systems, and environments. Sage works to incorporate these perspectives into the therapeutic space, and honors the identities and experiences of the clients she collaborates with.
Sage believes that healing begins in relationship. She hopes to provide a welcoming therapeutic space based on compassion, acceptance, and client autonomy. Sage trusts in the innate wisdom of each child, adult, and family, and seeks to collaborate with clients as they move through the ever-shifting circumstances of life. She recognizes that healing is different for each individual, and that the healing process is informed by our cultures, social systems, and environments. Sage works to incorporate these perspectives into the therapeutic space, and honors the identities and experiences of the clients she collaborates with.
(503) 714-7461 View (503) 714-7461
Photo of Gabby Hancher, MA
Gabby Hancher
Professional Counselor Associate, MA
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Portland, OR 97213
Not accepting new clients
I am an associate therapist who is clinically supervised by Rainer Quinn Catkin Rivenburgh MAAT, ATR-BC, ATCS, LAT, LPC, SEP and Selin Strait LPC, CHT. As a practitioner, I bring a playful and emotionally attuned approach with an orientation towards mindful, experiential theories such as Hakomi. Our time together will always be collaborative and informed by the wisdom of your own lived experience. Together we can explore the deep inner knowing that your body holds in order to help you thrive.
I am an associate therapist who is clinically supervised by Rainer Quinn Catkin Rivenburgh MAAT, ATR-BC, ATCS, LAT, LPC, SEP and Selin Strait LPC, CHT. As a practitioner, I bring a playful and emotionally attuned approach with an orientation towards mindful, experiential theories such as Hakomi. Our time together will always be collaborative and informed by the wisdom of your own lived experience. Together we can explore the deep inner knowing that your body holds in order to help you thrive.
(971) 328-7451 View (971) 328-7451
Photo of Kat Canada, LCSW, LICSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Kat Canada
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW, LICSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
I provide psychotherapy to children, teens, and emergent adults using an integrative relational or play-centered approach. I specialize in working young people who are curious about themselves but may feel adrift, alienated, misunderstood, or just tired and angry. For most of us, it makes sense to feel weary, outraged, anxious, or demoralized right now. It does not have to make sense to carry the weight of it alone.
I provide psychotherapy to children, teens, and emergent adults using an integrative relational or play-centered approach. I specialize in working young people who are curious about themselves but may feel adrift, alienated, misunderstood, or just tired and angry. For most of us, it makes sense to feel weary, outraged, anxious, or demoralized right now. It does not have to make sense to carry the weight of it alone.
(503) 744-5409 View (503) 744-5409
Photo of Angela Keeney, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Angela Keeney
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Not accepting new clients
*NOT ACCEPTING NEW CLIENTS* There are many reasons people seek therapy. Most likely, you're here because you're feeling out of balance in some aspect of your life. You may be looking for better ways to cope with depression or anxiety, change patterns that lead to unhealthy behaviors or relationships, or heal from a difficult or traumatic experience. Therapy can also help you gain insight about yourself, increase your sense of confidence, or help you explore a new life path with courage and intention. My hope is to provide support, tools, and encouragement to help you find greater balance, authenticity, and overall well-being.
*NOT ACCEPTING NEW CLIENTS* There are many reasons people seek therapy. Most likely, you're here because you're feeling out of balance in some aspect of your life. You may be looking for better ways to cope with depression or anxiety, change patterns that lead to unhealthy behaviors or relationships, or heal from a difficult or traumatic experience. Therapy can also help you gain insight about yourself, increase your sense of confidence, or help you explore a new life path with courage and intention. My hope is to provide support, tools, and encouragement to help you find greater balance, authenticity, and overall well-being.
(503) 406-6598 View (503) 406-6598
Photo of Kaleigh Boysen-Quinata - Family Roots Therapy, Marriage & Family Therapist
Family Roots Therapy
Marriage & Family Therapist
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Waitlist for new clients
We help new parents, young children, and teens to create healthier relationships and work together to navigate family conflict, life stressors, and adjustment to change. Do your child's emotions and outbursts seem out of control and too much to handle? Does your teen seem anxious, depressed, or withdrawn? Are you and your partner arguing constantly about parenting? Feeling sad and hopeless, or not bonding with your baby or child like you thought you would? We can help.
We help new parents, young children, and teens to create healthier relationships and work together to navigate family conflict, life stressors, and adjustment to change. Do your child's emotions and outbursts seem out of control and too much to handle? Does your teen seem anxious, depressed, or withdrawn? Are you and your partner arguing constantly about parenting? Feeling sad and hopeless, or not bonding with your baby or child like you thought you would? We can help.
(971) 274-5503 View (971) 274-5503
Photo of Therese Long, LMFT, Marriage & Family Therapist
Therese Long
Marriage & Family Therapist, LMFT
Verified Verified
1 Endorsed
Portland, OR 97213
Not accepting new clients
I believe the way to success in therapy is to find a therapist that is a good fit for your needs. Therapy is a relationship. One that works best when open, honest, and collaborative. I am invested in the client as an individual but also as a part of a greater system. I work from a systemic lens and believe deeply that our interactions and habits are greatly influenced by those around us and our previous experiences. My work with clients is done with the consideration of one’s identity, family history culture, and the world around us.
I believe the way to success in therapy is to find a therapist that is a good fit for your needs. Therapy is a relationship. One that works best when open, honest, and collaborative. I am invested in the client as an individual but also as a part of a greater system. I work from a systemic lens and believe deeply that our interactions and habits are greatly influenced by those around us and our previous experiences. My work with clients is done with the consideration of one’s identity, family history culture, and the world around us.
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Photo of John Coyle, LCSW, MSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
John Coyle
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW, MSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
As a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, one of my primary intentions is to help my clients understand, respond to, successfully cope with, and make meaning of the difficulties they're going through. If you're dealing with symptoms of depression or anxiety, the impact of trauma or abuse, grief, or you suffer from symptoms of ADHD or Bipolar give me a call and let me help you achieve positive change, greater wellness, stability, and enrichment in life. I'm also a veteran of the US military, and so am uniquely qualified to understand the needs of veterans and their problems. I accept most major health insurance and private pay clients.
As a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, one of my primary intentions is to help my clients understand, respond to, successfully cope with, and make meaning of the difficulties they're going through. If you're dealing with symptoms of depression or anxiety, the impact of trauma or abuse, grief, or you suffer from symptoms of ADHD or Bipolar give me a call and let me help you achieve positive change, greater wellness, stability, and enrichment in life. I'm also a veteran of the US military, and so am uniquely qualified to understand the needs of veterans and their problems. I accept most major health insurance and private pay clients.
(971) 339-0557 View (971) 339-0557
Photo of LAUREN Mullins, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
LAUREN Mullins
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
Hi! I'm Lauren. I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. I aim to create a safe, collaborative relationship as we navigate your healing. The focus may be placed on utilizing personal strengths, increasing safe coping skills and improving feelings of empowerment through evidence based interventions.
Hi! I'm Lauren. I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. I aim to create a safe, collaborative relationship as we navigate your healing. The focus may be placed on utilizing personal strengths, increasing safe coping skills and improving feelings of empowerment through evidence based interventions.
(971) 306-5525 View (971) 306-5525
Photo of Eileen B Summit, MSW, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Eileen B Summit
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LCSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
I work with women, 21-101, who are facing life transitions, health issues and loss. I specialize in working with women who are experiencing anxiety or depression, struggling to overcome negative thought patterns and interactions, or facing serious health issues, caregiving issues or loss of a loved one   I believe each woman has the inner strength needed to heal and take steps toward life-giving goals.
I work with women, 21-101, who are facing life transitions, health issues and loss. I specialize in working with women who are experiencing anxiety or depression, struggling to overcome negative thought patterns and interactions, or facing serious health issues, caregiving issues or loss of a loved one   I believe each woman has the inner strength needed to heal and take steps toward life-giving goals.
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Photo of Ashlee Adams, MSW, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Ashlee Adams
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, MSW, LCSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
I have had the privilege of being a resource to individuals facing various challenges. I will be accepting, flexible, and non-judgmental, whether you're exploring questions around anxiety, trauma, gender identity, or sexual orientation.
I have had the privilege of being a resource to individuals facing various challenges. I will be accepting, flexible, and non-judgmental, whether you're exploring questions around anxiety, trauma, gender identity, or sexual orientation.
(720) 741-7581 View (720) 741-7581
Photo of Elisabeth Rice, LCSW, Clinical Social Work/Therapist
Elisabeth Rice
Clinical Social Work/Therapist, LCSW
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213
Not accepting new clients
I'm not accepting new clients at this time, currently full. ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I bring years of experience and compassion to create a safe and caring space for clients to heal and grow. I genuinely respect their concerns and appreciate their special gifts and strengths, allowing their authentic voice to be aired, bringing more clarity and fulfillment in their life.
I'm not accepting new clients at this time, currently full. ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I bring years of experience and compassion to create a safe and caring space for clients to heal and grow. I genuinely respect their concerns and appreciate their special gifts and strengths, allowing their authentic voice to be aired, bringing more clarity and fulfillment in their life.
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Photo of Gabrielle Jacobs, CSWA, CADC, Pre-Licensed Professional
Gabrielle Jacobs
Pre-Licensed Professional, CSWA, CADC
Verified Verified
Portland, OR 97213  (Online Only)
Waitlist for new clients
At the Mind Body Therapy Center, I work with clients who are in chronic pain and or experiencing medically unexplained symptoms, as well as those who are suffering from health-related anxiety or obsessive-compulsive disorder. In my work, I use five primary evidence-based forms of therapy: Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET), Intensive Short-Term Psychodynamic Therapy (ISTDP), Exposure and Response Prevention, and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. My work is tailored to each client's unique challenges and goals.
At the Mind Body Therapy Center, I work with clients who are in chronic pain and or experiencing medically unexplained symptoms, as well as those who are suffering from health-related anxiety or obsessive-compulsive disorder. In my work, I use five primary evidence-based forms of therapy: Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET), Intensive Short-Term Psychodynamic Therapy (ISTDP), Exposure and Response Prevention, and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. My work is tailored to each client's unique challenges and goals.
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How does your Therapist compare?

Number of Therapists in 97213

200+

Average cost per session

$160

Therapists in 97213 who prioritize treating:

94% Anxiety
88% Depression
84% Relationship Issues
79% Self Esteem
76% Trauma and PTSD
73% Grief
68% Stress

Average years in practice

10 Years

Top 3 insurances accepted

57% PacificSource
42% BlueCross and BlueShield
39% Aetna

How Therapists in 97213 see their clients

69% In Person and Online
31% Online Only

Gender breakdown

75% Female
20% Male
5% Non-Binary
FAQs - About Therapy and Counseling

How can I find a therapist in 97213?

Search for nearby therapists or counselors by inputting your city, town, or suburb; or zip code; or a provider’s name into the search bar. From there, you can filter providers by the issues they treat, cost, insurance, gender, and other factors to find providers who are well-suited to your needs. To navigate between locations within the same country, enter a new city or zip code into the search bar.

Learn more about how to find a therapist

Is everyone in the Psychology Today Therapy Directory a licensed therapist?

The Psychology Today directory lists providers who offer legitimate mental health services to the public, including psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors.

Many have been licensed by the country or state where they practice; providers whose license or primary credential has been verified by Psychology Today are signified by a “Verified” symbol. Some clinicians or organizations provide services for which their state or country does not offer licenses, such as pastoral counseling. They may be selectively included without the “Verified” seal.

What’s the difference between a psychologist, a therapist, and a counselor?

Therapists, psychologists, and counselors are all licensed mental health professionals. In the US, psychologists have earned a doctoral degree. The terms “therapist” and “counselor” are used somewhat interchangeably, but generally therapists offer longer-term, mental health care, while counselors offer shorter-term care that may focus on one domain, such as marriage, career, or academic challenges.

Clients should consider factors such as insurance coverage and their primary reason(s) for seeking therapy to determine the type of professional best suited to their needs. Someone struggling with mental health challenges such as depression or anxiety, for example, may wish to seek out a clinical psychologist or therapist, while someone navigating career obstacles or marital upheaval may benefit from seeing a counselor who can offer short-term, targeted support.

What type of therapy is right for me?

The type of therapy best suited to a particular individual depends on several factors, including their primary reason for seeking therapy, their preferred timeline (some therapy types last for a set number of sessions, while others are open-ended), and their personality and preferences—some may prefer a more structured approach. For many individuals, multiple types of therapy could provide a good fit.

How much does therapy cost?

The cost of therapy depends on a number of variables, including location and the therapist’s experience and training. On average, a therapy session in the United States could cost between $100 and $200 or more. If you have insurance, the expense of mental health care is typically lower, but it varies based on your insurance plan details and whether you choose an in-network or out-of-network mental healthcare provider.

What are more affordable or low cost therapy solutions?

Many therapists offer sliding scale payments, usually on a limited number of slots, which consists in an agreement between the therapist and a client to pay a reduced rate. Therapists who provide such arrangements often consider the client's income or ability to pay, but the extent of the discount is ultimately at the therapist's discretion. Furthermore, while group therapy may have different goals and benefits compared to individual therapy, it can be a more affordable solution to address certain types of issues.

Is online therapy cheaper than in-person therapy?

Many therapists charge the same amount for online therapy as they do for in-person therapy—though clients may still find this cost-effective if it cuts down on their transportation costs. Health insurance plans often offer equivalent coverage for online and in-person therapy; indeed, in many places, they are legally required to do so. Text-based or on-demand therapy apps may be cheaper than traditional one-on-one psychotherapy; however, the practice may be less effective and is not likely to be covered by insurance.

Is online therapy a good option?

Therapy conducted online can be just as effective as in-person therapy, as long as there is a strong alliance between the client and the therapist. To find a therapist who provides telehealth services to clients in your area, click “Online Therapy” on the directory homepage and search by your city or town or your zip code.

Are therapy sessions confidential?

Confidentiality is a crucial part of the therapeutic relationship. Therapists in the United States are bound by the regulations set out by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), which aims to protect sensitive health information. With very few exceptions, a therapist will only discuss their client with others when the client has given their written permission. The instances in which a therapist would be required to disclose personal information are: if a client poses a danger to themselves or others, if the therapist suspects the abuse of a child or an elderly or otherwise dependent adult, or if they are legally forced to by court order. These exceptions to the confidentiality agreement are usually discussed with a client before their first session.

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